# Are Vulcans Possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249 "2018-01-09T17:23:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/41 "2018-01-10T03:19:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Speaking of Star Trek, if we were meant to understand Klingons = Soviets, Federation = USA, Romulans = Chinese, then who were the Vulcans? Israelis. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/42 "2018-01-10T03:24:04Z")
Given that there are people with very Vulcan like qualities who never seem to get perturbed about anything and are not prone to ill considered actions, sure it’s possible. It all depends on how well they can resist their biological impulses. What makes us persons is that we can choose to ignore what our instincts and biology tell us. Some people give in to every thought and impulse. These people could fairly be called non-persons, IMO, and indeed they tend to be committed either to prison or a mental facility eventually. Most people are slaves to their biology and instincts to some extent, but given that some people can transcend that more than others, I’d say it’s quite reasonable to believe that an intelligent species could evolve even further. It’s important to remember that we’re the first species on this planet to create civilization. Tens of thousands from years from now, even without us intentionally altering ourselves, we’ll be replaced by another species just as we replaced Neanderthals. Other planets might be on their fourth, fifth, or hundredth post-civilization species. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/43 "2018-01-10T03:24:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Israelis. … Which is why the Vulcan salute is actually a rabbinical blessing? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/44 "2018-01-10T03:57:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I believe you’re misremembering. In “This Side of Paradise,” no one was ever in danger of dying from the spores. Quite the opposite. They were protected against the Berthold rays bombarding the planet and were left in perfect health when their emotional influence was overcome… When Spock was hit with the spores, his reaction was to wince in physical pain, and his “girlfriend” made a comment about how no one else had been affected like that. You’re right in that I don’t think they said anything about dying, but it was not a pleasant experience for him like it was for the others. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/45 "2018-01-10T04:52:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When Spock was hit with the spores, his reaction was to wince in physical pain, and his “girlfriend” made a comment about how no one else had been affected like that. You’re right in that I don’t think they said anything about dying, but it was not a pleasant experience for him like it was for the others. True, his immediate physiological reaction was one of distress, but it passed quickly and left him with no ill effects (other than the contentment the spores gave him—if one considers that an “ill effect”). ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/46 "2018-01-10T05:34:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When Spock was hit with the spores, his reaction was to wince in physical pain, and his “girlfriend” made a comment about how no one else had been affected like that. You’re right in that I don’t think they said anything about dying, but it was not a pleasant experience for him like it was for the others. > [@terentii](#): > > True, his immediate physiological reaction was one of distress, but it passed quickly and left him with no ill effects (other than the contentment the spores gave him—if one considers that an “ill effect”). Here is the scene in question: [Spock kisses Leila](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfdRVtIyFQc) Whether the original distress was physiological, or simply a result of his mental attempt to reject the influence of the spores is not clear. It is, btw, one of my favorite _Star Trek_ episodes. ---
**Author:** ![I\_wasn\_t\_truly\_absent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4da419/32.png) [@I\_wasn\_t\_truly\_absent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_wasn_t_truly_absent)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/47 "2018-01-10T05:37:11Z")
I’ll be accused of being a bigot I’m sure but a lot of Russian and Polish people who came to live in Ireland in recent years look sort of expressionless and have a very strong “fock you” vibe, I’ve heard that random smiling and cheeriness are regarded as for well not necessarily for, but rather serve as an indication toward simple-mindedness , from the whole hard times history or something. So in flights of fancy one could draw parallels to Vulcans, if you were the kind of bigoted person who made such heinous observations , probably smiling to yourself while you do it too, you monster!!! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/48 "2018-01-10T05:46:42Z")
> [@I\_wasn\_t\_truly\_absent](#): > > I’ll be accused of being a bigot I’m sure but a lot of Russian and Polish people who came to live in Ireland in recent years look sort of expressionless and have a very strong “fock you” vibe, I’ve heard that random smiling and cheeriness are regarded as for well not necessarily for, but rather serve as an indication toward simple-mindedness , from the whole hard times history or something. Having lived full-time in Russia for much of the last 30 years, I can tell you yeah, this is a typical reaction if you smile at a stranger there. In East Europe (Poland, the Czech Republic, the Baltics), not nearly so much. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/49 "2018-01-10T05:49:41Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Whether the original distress was physiological, or simply a result of his mental attempt to reject the influence of the spores is not clear. I agree; it was probably a combination of both. As noted above, none of the humans reacted the way Spock did. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/50 "2018-01-10T07:06:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it’s not possible that all children will accept that indoctrination and that none will rebel. When someone rejects social standards too much we get to put on them a bunch of nifty labels, from Oppositional Disorder to Selfish Jerk. The immense majority of people do learn to say “please” and “thank you”, and the immense majority of people also absorb the values of the culture they grew up in. There are cultures which value precission in language and others which do not; all cultures value music but some value playing music more than dancing, some value singing above dancing; some value group work, some are more individualistic. Does every individual share every single value with the rest of that particular group? No, and variations on how many people hold certain valies is one of the ways in which cultures evolve. But those who share enough values, priorities and manners to be able to live in society are the ones who get to stay out of jail and of the local psychiatric. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Israelis. > > Stranger I don’t think they argued enough for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/51 "2018-01-10T07:54:05Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sedak: These humans are quite…gullible. > T’Pong: They are indeed. They should make an excellent servitor race. [For an alternative view](https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/11/star-trek-mad-science/): > [@](#): > > Klingons: Okay we don’t get it > > Vulcan Science Academy: Get what > > Klingons: You Vulcans are a bunch of stuffy prisses but you’re also tougher, stronger, and smarter than Humans in every single way > > Klingons: Why do you let them run your Federation > > Vulcan Science Academy: Look > > Vulcan Science Academy: This is a species where if you give them two warp cores they don’t do experiments on one and save the other for if the first one blows up > > Vulcan Science Academy: This is a species where if you give them two warp cores, they will ask for a third one, immediately plug all three into each other, punch a hole into an alternate universe where humans subscribe to an even more destructive ideological system, fight everyone in it because they’re offended by that, steal their warp cores, plug those together, punch their way back here, then try to turn a nearby sun into a torus because that was what their initial scientific experiment was for and they didn’t want to waste a trip. > > Vulcan Science Academy: They did that last week. We have the write-up right here. it’s getting published in about six hundred scientific journals across two hundred different disciplines because of how many established theories their ridiculous little expedition has just called into question. Also, they did turn that sun into a torus, and no one actually knows how. > > Vulcan Science Academy: This is why we let them do whatever the hell they want. > > Klingons: … Can we be a part of your Federation ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/52 "2018-01-10T09:12:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > i kinda thought this thread would be asking about the plausibility of copper-based hemoglobin. Strictly speaking, that’s haemo_cyanins_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/53 "2018-01-10T11:18:21Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Speaking of Star Trek, if we were meant to understand Klingons = Soviets, Federation = USA, Romulans = Chinese, then who were the Vulcans? I thought they were maybe out for a ‘60s Space Japan caricature: Spock is meant to have an ‘inscrutable’ thing going on, of the ‘emotional restraint’ type, just like he’s described as having an Asian appearance — and, sure, his culture now talks up pacifism, along with scientific research, but they’re clearly just as big on ancient martial-arts rituals involving gongs as they are on contemplative meditation. Just imagine Spock wearing a kimono and maybe it all falls into place? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/54 "2018-01-10T11:28:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought they were maybe out for a ‘60s Space Japan caricature: Spock is meant to have an ‘inscrutable’ thing going on, of the ‘emotional restraint’ type, just like he’s described as having an Asian appearance — and, sure, his culture now talks up pacifism, along with scientific research, but they’re clearly just as big on ancient martial-arts rituals involving gongs as they are on contemplative meditation. > > Just imagine Spock wearing a kimono and maybe it all falls into place? Roddenberry did indeed have a “thing” for Japan. He and Majel went there to get married in a Shinto ceremony, at which they both wore the traditional garb. (There are probably pictures of this on the Internet.) And of course, Spock was similarly attired in _ **The Voyage Home** _. Roddenberry also insisted one of the starships in _ **TNG** _ be christened _Yamato_. (Unfortunately, it suffered a rather bad accident, IIRC. ☹ ) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/55 "2018-01-10T14:41:34Z")
Overload of the wave motion gun blew the whole thing up? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/56 "2018-01-10T16:33:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought they were maybe out for a ‘60s Space Japan caricature: Spock is meant to have an ‘inscrutable’ thing going on, of the ‘emotional restraint’ type, just like he’s described as having an Asian appearance — and, sure, his culture now talks up pacifism, along with scientific research, but they’re clearly just as big on ancient martial-arts rituals involving gongs as they are on contemplative meditation. > > Just imagine Spock wearing a kimono and maybe it all falls into place? Formerly warlike, now our pacifist allies, seemingly displaying little emotion – yes, I always thought the Vulcans were supposed to represent Japanese culture in that interpretation of Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/57 "2018-01-10T20:08:47Z")
Klingons are space orcs, Ferengi are space goblins, Vulcans are space elves, and Romulans are space drow. I’m just saying what everyone else is to afraid to say out loud. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/58 "2018-01-10T20:26:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Overload of the wave motion gun blew the whole thing up? It’s been a while, but I think a computer virus did it in. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/59 "2018-01-11T16:55:23Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It’s been a while, but I think a computer virus did it in. This may be a whoosh, but I believe **Chronos** was referencing the anime series [Space Battleship Yamato](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato) (dubbed in the U.S. as _Star Blazers_), whose principal weapon was called the “wave motion gun.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249/60 "2018-01-11T19:54:49Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > This may be a whoosh, but I believe **Chronos** was referencing the anime series [Space Battleship Yamato](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato) (dubbed in the U.S. as _Star Blazers_), whose principal weapon was called the “wave motion gun.” My apologies. I’m not familiar with that one. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-vulcans-possible/806249.md?page=4)