# Are we alone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981 "2011-05-06T17:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/41 "2011-05-07T20:23:50Z")
> [@](#): > > “The Universe is so incredibly vast” is not, by itself, a conclusive argument. Not by itself, no. But if you combine it with even extremely rudimentary estimates for the various other Drake factors, then it becomes enough. > [@](#): > > Are you saying there’s abundant evidence for extraterrestrials? The only thing I can think of is that Martian meteor, but I thought that was either the result of geologic processes or inconclusive. That would be evidence for a _particular_ alien life, which I admitted was lacking. We can’t point to any specific planet or star or galaxy (aside from our own, of course) and say “There’s life there”. We can say, though, that the probability for any given planet or star or galaxy is not so incredibly low as to overwhelm the incredibly large number of candidate stars in the Universe. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/42 "2011-05-07T22:54:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …but the Universe is so incredibly vast that statistically, the chances are overwhelmingly in favor of ETs somewhere out there Since we’re talking statistics, what’s your sample size for estimates of f[sub]l[/sub], f[sub]i[/sub], and f[sub]c[/sub]? What’s the null hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/13edae/32.png) [@FarmerChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/43 "2011-05-08T02:17:13Z")
Uh, yes the pyramids were built by slaves…“the jews” got fed up and left over it… and using computers, modern architechs and construction experts have sad that there is no way people pulled the blocked up there unless they had hundreds of thousands of people on the histroy channle a profressor from texas a&m tryed to move a block that size with tools of the time, it took the whole football team to move it 20 feet and they couldnt pull it even up the smallet in cline even on logs for rollers, they used a pay loader and that have a tough time You all should read chariots of the gods also there are alot of accounts of people coming down from the heavens picographs of early astronaughts the speed of light will not be the way we travle it will have to be wormholes and ripping points in space, also last i knew alll of physics is a giant theory so to say we will never have the technology to go those distances is foolish, also There has to be life out there more advanced then us i dont see how there couldnt be… however if we are alone that would be effing sweet more room for humans, but i guess i am crazy b/c so far so one has seemed to agree with any of my points… probably the reason we dont continue to go into space. o and the SETI array is offline and they are begging for donations so yes it has stopped ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/44 "2011-05-08T02:44:36Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > Uh, yes the pyramids were built by slaves…“the jews” got fed up and left over it.. The Jews building the pyramids is pretty much a folk myth. > [@](#): > > and using computers, modern architechs and construction experts have sad that there is no way people pulled the blocked up there unless they had hundreds of thousands of people on the histroy channle a profressor from texas a&m tryed to move a block that size with tools of the time, it took the whole football team to move it 20 feet and they couldnt pull it even up the smallet in cline even on logs for rollers, they used a pay loader and that have a tough time I would not rely on the History Channel to give you reliable information. They’re a for-profit business, not an educational foundation. Their standards for broadcast are, “What will make us the most money?” not “What’s most likely to be accurate?” They’re about as reliable as, say, Eric von Daniken. > [@](#): > > You all should read chariots of the gods Oh. > [@](#): > > the speed of light will not be the way we travle it will have to be wormholes and ripping points in space, also last i knew alll of physics is a giant theory so to say we will never have the technology to go those distances is foolish, “Theory,” in scientific terms, does not mean, “best guess.” It means, “rigourously tested and found to be without flaws.” That doesn’t mean that, at some point, new knowledge might lead us to change or even overturn existing theories, but it’s important to realize that, currently, there is absolutely no evidence that any form of faster than light travel is possible, and considerable evidence that it is a physical impossibility. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/45 "2011-05-08T05:17:24Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > Uh, yes the pyramids were built by slaves…“the jews” got fed up and left over it… > You all should read chariots of the gods … We are being whooshed. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/46 "2011-05-08T14:18:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not by itself, no. But if you combine it with even extremely rudimentary estimates for the various other Drake factors, then it becomes enough. OK, so my rudimentary estimates for those figures are 1/10^90, 1/10^137 and 1/10^10, 000. So how exactly does this somehow become “enough”? Base don those estimates you have a better chance of spontaneously teleporting to Mars than you do of living in a universe with any other life. > [@](#): > > We can say, though, that the probability for any given planet or star or galaxy is not so incredibly low as to overwhelm the incredibly large number of candidate stars in the Universe. Cite! ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/47 "2011-05-08T16:06:05Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > OK, so my rudimentary estimates for those figures are 1/10^90, 1/10^137 and 1/10^10, 000. Since you’ve asked others for cites to back up their numbers, I’m confident that you’re not going to be upset by a similar request for the above numbers. …because based on those numbers, it looks to me like life on earth couldn’t possibly exist. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/48 "2011-05-08T20:39:48Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > o and the SETI array is offline and they are begging for donations so yes it has stopped There are several telescopes and other instruments which are part of (or used for) the SETI program. The Allen Telescope Array, the one which went offline last year due to lack of funds, is just one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/49 "2011-05-08T20:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Uh, yes the pyramids were built by slaves…“the jews” got fed up and left over it.. and using computers, modern architechs and construction experts have sad that there is no way people pulled the blocked up there unless they had hundreds of thousands of people on the histroy channle a profressor from texas a&m tryed to move a block that size with tools of the time, it took the whole football team to move it 20 feet and they couldnt pull it even up the smallet in cline even on logs for rollers, they used a pay loader and that have a tough time Meanwhile, [some dude in Michigan](http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/newpage2) has a set of techniques which could have been used by the Egyptians, by which a crew of 740 working under modern labor conditions (40 hour weeks, two weeks vacation a year) could do it in 25 years. Nor is this just some armchair BSer: He’s using the same techniques to single-handedly build a replica of Stonehenge. Just because someone tried and failed doesn’t mean it’s impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/50 "2011-05-08T20:49:58Z")
\*\*Are we alone? \*\* Yes. There is no one else, yet. We are the Elder Race, the Ancient Ones, the first and for now the only intelligent species capable of technology and space flight in the entire galaxy. The ones who will be revered by the many that follow. Somebody has to be first. It’s us. Pretty scary, huh? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/51 "2011-05-08T21:09:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The Jews building the pyramids is pretty much a folk myth… So is the whole “the pyramids were build by slaves”. The pyramids were public works projects designed to keep pheasants busy during the off season when the Nile flooded. For millenia people just assumed that slave labor was used since no could imagine large numbers of free men voluntarily signing on to do that much risky and back breaking labor. We since found surviving employment contracts were they agreed to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/52 "2011-05-08T21:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The pyramids were public works projects designed to keep pheasants busy during the off season when the Nile flooded. I must say, the idea that the pyramids were built by game birds is perhaps the most original theory I’ve ever seen floated on this board. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/53 "2011-05-09T00:46:56Z")
Regardless of whether the Pyramids were built by slaves (sorry 'bout that) or employees or 1099-contract workers, we can agree that they _weren’t_ built by extra-terrestrials, right? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/54 "2011-05-09T01:25:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I must say, the idea that the pyramids were built by game birds is perhaps the most original theory I’ve ever seen floated on this board. I quail at the very idea. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/55 "2011-05-09T01:29:05Z")
> [@FarmerChuck](#): > > Uh, yes the pyramids were built by slaves…“the jews” got fed up and left over it.. and using computers, modern architechs and construction experts have sad that there is no way people pulled the blocked up there unless they had hundreds of thousands of people on the histroy channle a profressor from texas a&m tryed to move a block that size with tools of the time, it took the whole football team to move it 20 feet and they couldnt pull it even up the smallet in cline even on logs for rollers, they used a pay loader and that have a tough time If the History Channel said it rained last week, I’d check a newspaper to be sure. And the feebleness of Aggie athletes has nothing to do with it. > [@](#): > > You all should read chariots of the gods I have. A bigger load of rubbish I have never seen. You should read “Some Trust in Chariots” which refutes it quite nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/56 "2011-05-09T01:32:01Z")
Yes, we are. The way you frame the question, we are definitely alone in the glory of our ignorance. All those conspiracy theories are for the unintelligent and uneducated. From a scientific/naturalistic point of view, it’s doubtful biological beings evolved only on this planet and nowhere else. Intelligence and consciousness is a on a whole other ballpark, but still, it’s highly unlikely in this vast universe this is the only place a bio-being has evolved to be conscious. From a schi/philosophical point of view, there is nothing unique in the universe. Maybe the universe is not unique either, but this is just speculation for now. So, the answer to your original question is no, but the answer to the rest of mindless blabber is that they’re all nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/57 "2011-05-09T03:58:35Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > From a scientific/naturalistic point of view, it’s doubtful biological beings evolved only on this planet and nowhere else. Intelligence and consciousness is a on a whole other ballpark, but still, it’s highly unlikely in this vast universe this is the only place a bio-being has evolved to be conscious. From a scientific/naturalistic point of view, we have no idea about the probability that biological beings evolved only on this planet and nowhere else. Ditto for intelligence and consciousness. Claims that such things are “doubtful” or “highly unlikely” have absolutely no basis in reason or logic. They are expressions of ignorance and nothing more. We simply lack the most basic information to make any sort of statement about the probabilities. > [@](#): > > From a schi/philosophical point of view, there is nothing unique in the universe. Ahh, no, from a schi/philosophical point of view, almost everything in the universe is unique. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/58 "2011-05-09T04:02:20Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > Since you’ve asked others for cites to back up their numbers, I’m confident that you’re not going to be upset by a similar request for the above numbers. As I said clearly, it’s an estimate. > [@](#): > > …because based on those numbers, it looks to me like life on earth couldn’t possibly exist. You are now invoking the anthropic principle. If the Earth did not exist, how could we be discussing this? So clearly the existence of the Earth is a precondition for the existence of this discussion, and therefore can not be used as evidence for any position \*within \*the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/59 "2011-05-09T04:25:52Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Ahh, no, from a schi/philosophical point of view, almost everything in the universe is unique. That’s wrong. Anything we observe or can comprehend, is just one sample of many other objects that have the same exact properties. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981/60 "2011-05-09T04:28:11Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > That’s wrong. > > Anything we observe or can comprehend, is just one sample of many other objects that have the same exact properties. Haven’t I read this post before? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-alone/580981.md?page=4)