# Are we already capable of going to Mars this very instant but just unwilling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** ai\ **Created:** [March 4, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115 "2025-03-04T17:01:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/21 "2025-03-04T19:52:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They were lucky-but do note that was one out of 14, and the other 13 went off A-OK, Not counting Skylab and the Apollo/Soyuz Test Project there were [only eleven (11) crewed Apollo missions with (6) lunar landings](https://www.nasa.gov/specials/apollo50th/missions.html), and many of them had significant anomalies including substantial POGO issues, electrostatically charged lunar dust infiltration jamming mechanisms, and most famously the Apollo 12 lighting strike that resulted in John Aaron’s “Switch SCE to AUX” command which gave rise to the popular use of the term “steely-eyed missile man”. Apollo 11 lunar landing [almost ended in abort when the LM computer kept glitching from overload with the infamous “1202 error”](https://spacecraftguide.com/2023/10/20/apollo-11-computer-overload/). And of course the deaths of Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee in the Apollo 1 pad test capsule fire which was due to bad engineering and management decisions in the design of the capsule system and communicating risks about flammability in an all oxygen atmosphere. There were plenty of near-misses and major problems during Apollo. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/22 "2025-03-04T19:53:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and the other 13 went off A-OK Ummmmm, Apollo 1. And I see **Stranger** has mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/23 "2025-03-04T19:58:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There is some water. And Mars is not a vacuum. No, the statement that “there is no air, food, or water on Mars” is basically correct. I don’t believe there’s any usable liquid water, and the Martian atmosphere is not only extremely thin, it’s comprised mostly of CO2, and with enough CO to be toxic. It is not in any sense “air”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/24 "2025-03-04T20:12:53Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And of course the deaths of Gus Grissom, Ed White, and Roger Chaffee in the Apollo 1 pad test capsule fire which was due to bad engineering and management decisions in the design of the capsule system and communicating risks about flammability in an all oxygen atmosphere. There were plenty of near-misses and major problems during Apollo. Yep, plenty of near misses. And Apollo 1 was was a disaster- while still on the ground- and being tested. But we landed on the moon six times, with no deaths- just near misses and issues. With ancient tech. Even A 13 got back. So, the failure rate leading to the death of the astronauts is pretty good the only ones in were the two Space shuttle missions- but there were 130+ successful mission. No doubt- being an Astronaut is a risky job, but by no means is it a death sentence. > [@wolfpup](#): > > No, the statement that “there is no air, food, or water on Mars” is basically correct. It doesnt matter. There was even less water and air on the Moon. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/25 "2025-03-04T20:20:25Z")
The Moon is also much closer. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/26 "2025-03-04T21:05:18Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > While the astronauts might willingly accept such poor odds, governments and space agencies have a very different view. I wonder what probability of survival and percentage of national GDP or whatever economic measure it took to commit the materiel for historic colonies. Of course, there was usually a preliminary expedition - a colony ship wouldn’t be the first to take a route. Nor the last, as colonies were usually continuously supplied. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/27 "2025-03-04T22:57:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I wonder what probability of survival and percentage of national GDP or whatever economic measure it took to commit the materiel for historic colonies. > **[Darien scheme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme)** > > The Darien scheme was an unsuccessful attempt, backed largely by investors of the Kingdom of Scotland, to gain wealth and influence by establishing New Caledonia, a colony in the Darién Gap on the Isthmus of Panama, in the late 1690s. The plan was for the colony, located on the Gulf of Darién, to establish and manage an overland route to connect the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans. The backers knew that the first sighting of the Pacific Ocean by Vasco Núñez de Balboa was after crossing the isthmus... Pull quote: > As the [Company of Scotland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_of_Scotland) was backed by approximately 20 per cent of all the money circulating in Scotland, its failure left the entire Scottish Lowlands in financial ruin. This was an important factor in weakening resistance to the [Act of Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707) So that’s one salient example of, basically, a country that rolled the dice on making a colony and went bust. And, of course, that’s attempting to colonize on the same planet. We may be able to make a guess about the level of investment necessary to colonize another planet; we know almost nothing about what kinds of returns to expect - and given transportation costs, they’re likely to be very low. If we could be assured of finding and decoding some kind of advanced Martian technology, information about which could be sent easily to Earth, that would perhaps be the one thing that might make it worthwhile. But Fred Pohl’s already written about that, right? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/28 "2025-03-04T23:02:29Z")
One of the biggest ways to finance the New World colonies was via land and other grants. A company would be given the right to a big chunk of land, they’d sell shares in the enterprise, use the money to get ships, settlers, etc. and head off. There’s all sorts of international treaty stuff that limits doing this with the Moon and planets. Plus it would be extremely weird that there would be anything worth grabbing on Mars that would pay for sending it back, even just to Earth orbit. Even the Moon is questionable in this regard. Sure, it has The Most Fabulous Object In The World: helium. But it’s probably too diffuse to make the whole enterprise pay vs. Earth extraction. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/29 "2025-03-04T23:15:27Z")
Very interesting about the Scottish colony, I’ll read up on it later tonight! > [@ftg](#): > > There’s all sorts of international treaty stuff that limits doing this with the Moon and planets. Per the hypothetical everyone on Earth is committed, so we can handwave away those political roadblocks. Still need the ROI though. Many years ago I remember Elon Musk of all people proposing to use Mars as a staging area for asteroid belt mining operations. Maybe that’s where the ROI comes from? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/30 "2025-03-04T23:49:41Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Many years ago I remember Elon Musk of all people proposing to use Mars as a staging area for asteroid belt mining operations. Maybe that’s where the ROI comes from? In what way would Mars be useful as “a staging area for asteroid belt mining operations”? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/31 "2025-03-05T00:21:01Z")
I am very much not an expert on anything science related. But he seems to think you can use Mars’s natural water and carbon dioxide reserves to refuel spacecraft. The SpaceX site has an infographic covering Earth to Mars and back: [https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/mars/](https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/mars/) That being said, I couldn’t find the article(s) where I read Musk wants to use Mars to stage asteroid mining operations. Here’s [a recent paper on that topic](https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/mars-base-asteroid-exploration-and-mining), not related to Elon Musk. Here’s a one minute [clip of him saying so from 2003](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjoRZUckTws). But then [here he is in 2012](https://youtu.be/c1HZIQliuoA?t=4486) saying the main economic exchange between a Mars base and Earth would be intellectual property. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/32 "2025-03-05T00:28:39Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > There’s all sorts of international treaty stuff that limits doing this with the Moon and planets. Plus it would be extremely weird that there would be anything worth grabbing on Mars that would pay for sending it back, even just to Earth orbit. Even the Moon is questionable in this regard. Sure, it has The Most Fabulous Object In The World: helium. But it’s probably too diffuse to make the whole enterprise pay vs. Earth extraction. Well, I for one would be willing to pay extra to have all the Mars astronauts/space colonists talk with that helium voice all the time. Live-streaming (with the necessary lag) a rowdy Mars City town-hall meeting where everyone’s shouting at Elon Musk would be worth its weight in quatloos. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/33 "2025-03-05T00:36:50Z")
There’s no real rush and no real point to get to Mars first. I guess maybe silly nationalistic reasons, but those are pretty fleeting and the return isn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/34 "2025-03-05T01:02:58Z")
I will sorta-quote Dirty Harry for the umpteenth time: > Nuthin’ wrong with sending people to Mars one-way. 'Long as the right people get sent. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/35 "2025-03-05T01:03:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Hypothetically: Suppose that suddenly, tomorrow morning, all of humanity collectively decided as a hive mind, _Yes, we’ve got to send a team of astronauts to Mars. Now. Who cares if it costs trillions of dollars; it’s the top human priority._ > > Do we already have everything we need to do it Well, yes. We have landed a number of probes on Mars. If we really wanted to, we could land a human there. But we couldn’t bring him back. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/36 "2025-03-05T01:18:28Z")
And they’d probably have died along the way to Mars. We could, with a decent chance of success, deliver their body to the surface. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/37 "2025-03-05T02:24:27Z")
@RitterSport hit the nail on the head by pointing out the info in the book [“A City on Mars”](https://www.acityonmars.com/). I have read it and it’s fascinating, insightful, and quite frequently hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/38 "2025-03-05T04:48:32Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > “Switch SCE to AUX” command It was actually “Try SCE to AUX”. What is often lost in that story is almost no one knew what that switch was or where it was … except for Alan Bean who, through mere coincidence, was in the chair responsible for that switch. So while everyone in that air and on the ground was WTF is that!, he calmly reached over and flipped it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/39 "2025-03-05T04:50:39Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Well, yes. We have landed a number of probes on Mars. If we really wanted to, we could land a human there. > > But we couldn’t bring him back. If I had a year to live and someone was willing to send me to die on Mars just for a proof of concept I wouldn’t hesitate. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2025, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115/40 "2025-03-05T06:42:29Z")
You need proof that you’ll die without air, food, and water? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-already-capable-of-going-to-mars-this-very-instant-but-just-unwilling/1015115.md?page=3)