# Are we are being watched from afar? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462 "2021-01-01T20:00:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/21 "2021-01-02T20:36:42Z")
Apparently [these guys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_So_I_Watch_You_from_Afar) don’t have any lyrics in their songs or they might have some input on this question. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/22 "2021-01-03T02:59:12Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > From the Bible angels seem to be both inter-dimensional beings and also interstellar travelers who do visit earth. Huginn and Muninn are keeping their eyes on you. Also that Satan Santa guy. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > For communications over astronomical distances, using high frequency gravitational waves actually makes a lot of sense because they don’t attenuate with distance and aside from the occasional pair of colliding neutron stars or black holes, nothing could really interfere with them. Colliding black holes and neutron stars seem to be fairly common on a universal scale. LIGO has discovered dozens of them and there’s lots more candidates. But the hypothetical aliens could use a different part of the gravitational wave spectrum which would avoid such interference. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/23 "2021-01-03T03:06:40Z")
So they could send Morse code by banging two Neutron stars together? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/24 "2021-01-03T03:07:23Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Colliding black holes and neutron stars seem to be fairly common on a universal scale. - Maybe the secret is to bang rocks stellar matter together. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/25 "2021-01-03T03:11:04Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Colliding black holes and neutron stars seem to be fairly common on a universal scale. LIGO has discovered dozens of them and there’s lots more candidates. But the hypothetical aliens could use a different part of the gravitational wave spectrum which would avoid such interference. Colliding black holes and neutron stars are a very transient phenomena; even in the same frequency range, the ‘ringing’ of such collisions is only a very minor interference and easily filtered out since it is has such a pure characteristics. Producing high frequency gravitational waves, on the other hand, requires the ability to manipulate spacetime on a very delicate level that defies any foreseeable technology, so even it is physically plausible it is still highly speculative. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/26 "2021-01-03T03:19:44Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > However, we’ve only been doing things that suggest intelligent life for a very short period of time. Only space aliens within a hundred or so light years are going to see the telltale signs of industrial pollution or radio communication. That gives them very little time to have come to visit and look closely. Yes, there are millions if not billions of planets that could have intelligent life. How many are within 100 LY? Well, there are 12 “habitable” exoplanets within 100LY, maybe 13. Of those three are considered “possible ideal”. So the chance we are being “watched” at this point in time is very very low. > **[List of potentially habitable exoplanets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets)** > > This is a list of potentially habitable exoplanets. The list is mostly based on estimates of habitability by the Habitable Exoplanets Catalog (HEC), and data from the NASA Exoplanet Archive. The HEC is maintained by the Planetary Habitability Laboratory at the University of Puerto Rico at Arecibo. There is also a speculative list being developed of superhabitable planets. > Surface planetary habitability is thought to require an orbit at the right distance from the host star for liquid surface wat... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/27 "2021-01-03T03:24:01Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The distances, transit times, and energies of interstellar travel using any conceivable propulsion technology make that unlikely There are many “conceivable” propulsion technologies that allow FTL. Currently there are no _plausible_ ones however. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/28 "2021-01-03T05:22:15Z")
I don’t think SETI is looking for directed communication systems, but just a recognizable wake in the water behind any activity that has a non-random pattern. Smoke where there is fire. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/29 "2021-01-03T13:56:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, there are millions if not billions of planets that could have intelligent life. Why this hang up on finding “intelligent” life. Lower the bar and look for evidence of pretty smart life, improving your odds. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/30 "2021-01-03T14:11:51Z")
The problem with the Bible as a scientific book is that when they tried to peer-review it it became first the Quran and then von Däniken. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/31 "2021-01-03T14:18:01Z")
We have an awful lot of evidence for “really dumb” life forms too. I think that’s just as likely. If I could travel the galaxy and could wait awhile, I think I’d wait to visit earth until after all the humans are gone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/32 "2021-01-03T14:35:13Z")
One of the best alien-contact novels I’ve read has a bleak take on the Prisoner’s Dilemma. Any other intelligent, advanced species out there could be kind, in which case you might improve your lot in life. Or they could be vicious, in which case they could wipe you out. So your best chance of survival is to wipe them out before they figure out where you are. Of course, even the kindest species make the same calculation; even if they’d like to be kind, they know that they risk the other species being paranoid, or careful, or vicious, and choosing to wipe them out. So the universe is full of species trying to figure out where other technological species are located, and genociding them before they get genocided themselves. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/33 "2021-01-03T14:36:51Z")
It was a angel who peer reviewed the Quran. The Bible came out pretty well. IDK about von Däniken. ⭐ ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/34 "2021-01-03T14:50:08Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Bible came out pretty well. As a book of Love and Hate, yes, a bit repetitive, but hey, they say that even of [Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeares-plays-and-repetitiveness-plus-whats-the-big-deal/929373). But as scientific Œuvre? I have my doubts… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/35 "2021-01-04T00:05:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I question whether another civilization would even communicate by radio to other nascent civilizations. For a broadcast signal that doesn’t have the output of a small star the plausible range of communication would only be a few hundred light years at most, which might seem like a long distance until you consider the actual scale of the galaxy in which that volume is only 0.00018% of the volume and contains less than 0.00001% of the estimated 400 billion stars in the galaxy. Unless a nearby civilization were specifically trying to communicate with us, the odds that we would pick up any signal are marginal at best. Depends on why they are communicating. If they are trying to elevate the other civilization they may want to contact one that hasn’t hit the level to pick up gravity waves yet. And the relatively limited range might be a feature, not a bug, depending on how long they want to wait for a response. I’d assume they have a better idea of the density of intelligent life than we do. Yeah, physical trade (and war) is not going to happen. Why move a machine when you can send a program to create it using an advanced 3-d printer? (50 - 100 years from now, Amazon won’t be using trucks or drones.) The only reason I can think of would be to spread your genetic material more widely. BTW, one big problem with the standard sf universes, even with ftl travel, is that for plot purposes all the races have to be more or less at the same technological level. (Or so advanced they don’t give a shit anymore.) Otherwise your standard plot would look less like the Klingons vs the Federation and more like The Mouse that Roared. I call this the meta-Fermi paradox. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/36 "2021-01-04T00:29:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > BTW, one big problem with the standard sf universes, even with ftl travel, is that for plot purposes all the races have to be more or less at the same technological level. (Or so advanced they don’t give a shit anymore.) Otherwise your standard plot would look less like the Klingons vs the Federation and more like The Mouse that Roared. I call this the meta-Fermi paradox _The Expanse_ series deals with this well (although the characters are only dealing with the residual technology of the extinct Ring Builders and the conflict is between factions of humans fighting over alien technologies and political squables), but yes, in general it is very difficult to have an exciting plot when one species is so far advanced compared to humanity that they could destroy our civilization without effort. One of the major complaints often voiced about _2001: A Space Odyssey_ is how oblique the monolith makers were; they are unseen in the film (other than perhaps by David Bowman) and their motivations are never explicated, but it is probably a far more realistic portrayal of contact with any advanced extraterrestrial than anything in _Star Trek_ or _Stargate_. Alien civilization and the technology it is built upon may be so wildly different that even talking about being on the same technological level may be meaningless; an extraterrestrial society that makes objects by exuding enzymes, has a naturally evolved ability to modify their own gene expression (or the alien equivalent) to dynamically adapt, and communicates by exchanging protein complexes directly encoding neural information may just be so radically different that we could only make comparisons in the most general terms. The question of the o.p.–“Are we being _watched_ from afar?”–even implicitly assumes a human sense (vision) and curiosity inherent to our nature which may not reflect a totally alien civilization. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![rboyce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rboyce/32/4066_2.png) [@rboyce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rboyce)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/37 "2021-01-10T18:39:24Z")
Scientists tracked the reddish-colored ‘Oumuamua from Oct. 14, 2017, until Jan. 2, 2018, after which it became too faint to detect even using the most powerful telescopes. It is estimated to be a half-mile (800 meters) long, tumbling through space. The researchers wrote that a “straightforward explanation for ‘Oumuamua is that it is a planetesimal” - a planetary building block - or a fragment of one - formed in faraway star system. Its composition remains a mystery, including whether it is just rock or includes some metal or other ingredients. It is currently located beyond Saturn, dashing out of our solar system. **[Scientists conclude cigar-shaped interstellar object not an alien spaceship | Reuters](https://tinyurl.com/y5f96red)** ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/38 "2021-01-10T23:26:45Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _The Expanse_ series deals with this well (although the characters are only dealing with the residual technology of the extinct Ring Builders and the conflict is between factions of humans fighting over alien technologies and political squables), but yes, in general it is very difficult to have an exciting plot when one species is so far advanced compared to humanity that they could destroy our civilization without effort. Will have to try the Expanse series. I agree that it would be tough to show two civilizations at widely different technical levels in conflict, but the universe builder needs to explain where the advanced civilizations are instead of ignoring the problem. We all seem to assume the universe started with us. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > One of the major complaints often voiced about _2001: A Space Odyssey_ is how oblique the monolith makers were; they are unseen in the film (other than perhaps by David Bowman) and their motivations are never explicated, but it is probably a far more realistic portrayal of contact with any advanced extraterrestrial than anything in _Star Trek_ or _Stargate_ . They tried to design some aliens - examples are shown in Agel’s book, for example, and wisely decided that not showing them was better. You can maybe hear them in the part of the soundtrack which pissed off Ligeti. The full piece is on a 2001 soundtrack CD I have. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/39 "2021-01-11T00:39:49Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Will have to try the Expanse series. I agree that it would be tough to show two civilizations at widely different technical levels in conflict, but the universe builder needs to explain where the advanced civilizations are instead of ignoring the problem. _The Expanse_ (both the show, and to a lesser extend the novels) take some liberties with the physics of propulsion and orbital mechanics (among other things) in order to facilitate a story that doesn’t involve the characters taking months or years to fly to the far extents of the solar system but is otherwise pretty ‘hard’ in terms of the technology, or at least as hard is it can be when dealing with things like space travel and combat, which will probably not be anything that we actually imagine today any more than the Victorian imaginings of a “difference engine” anticipated digital computing. When the story introduces the ‘magical’ technology of the Ring Builders (the protomolecule and its constructs) it does so in a way that that is still physically plausible (e.g. the laws of thermodynamics apply even though they seem to be able to manipulate spacetime and alter local conservation of momentum) and more importantly that humans can’t figure out by recognizing some hieroglyphics or hacking an alien operating system with their vintage 1996 Powerbook 5300. Not to spoil any particular plot points but I’ll just note that the direct communication that characters have via the Ring Builder and other technologies that are found is nearly incomprehensible, and this drives the story (of the conflict of humans in conflict with one another) forward rather than just becoming the focus of resolving the plot as it so often is with most cinematic science fiction. The casting and direction is also very good, especially given its origins as a SyFy show, and given the television budget, the set direction, practical effects, and CGI are excellent, rivaling any movie franchise you can name. Overall, it’s definitely worth the investment of time. > [@Voyager](#): > > We all seem to assume the universe started with us. This seems to be an essential human failing that we commit again and again; assuming that the Sun, planets, and stars revolve around the Earth; that the Sun is the center of the universe; that we (humanity) are some ultimate pinnacle of evolutionary development, and that because we do not see signs of extraterrestrial civilizations in the small pocket of our own unremarkable galaxy that we can observe with any fidelity to conclude we are the exclusive intelligence in the universe, and that if we had contact with another civilization capable of traveling between stars that we would have anything like parity in technology, society, or even ability to communicate. The reality of such a contact might vary from humanity just being a mildly interesting form of life in the early stages of developing actual intelligence but not yet capable of the simple art of directly manipulating nuclear and gravitational forces, and thus, not even worthy of exchanging pleasantries, to our civilization being incidentally zapped like an moth while the alien society maneuvers our star across millions of light years to serve as a bit of useful mass in their billion year plan building their cosmic scale Kerr metric wormhole to a new universe. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462/40 "2021-01-11T00:45:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You can maybe hear them in the part of the soundtrack which pissed off Ligeti. Ooh, this is something I’d never heard! Gossip, please? What went wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-are-being-watched-from-afar/929462.md?page=3)