# Are we at Trump’s tipping point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944 "2018-03-21T03:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/421 "2018-04-16T06:38:21Z")
What about “Follow the money” do you not understand? That’s where they’ll catch Trump up. Hence, his financials (which includes business affairs). Until the investigation is done. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/422 "2018-04-16T06:46:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > A fair number of those who voted for Trump are likely to become non-voters. A fair number of last cycle non-voters are likely to become voters against Trump and his allies. Well, one thing we can say for sure about the past couple of years is pretty well everyone on this message board doesn’t know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Trump supporters, so at least you’re consistent. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I repeat, Mueller is not looking into his business other than tangentially as it relates to any investigation into Russian interference in the election. As we’ve already seen, he quickly drops anything he finds outside his specific purview onto others to pursue. > > I swear to God, it’s like speaking to the wind. But that isn’t to say the FBI as an institution ignores criminality. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/423 "2018-04-16T12:32:01Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well, one thing we can say for sure about the past couple of years is pretty well everyone on this message board doesn’t know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Trump supporters, so at least you’re consistent. > But that isn’t to say the FBI as an institution ignores criminality. If you have a specific argument to make about DSeid’s prediction of likely and non-likely voters, now is the perfect place and time to make it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/424 "2018-04-16T12:55:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well, one thing we can say for sure about the past couple of years is pretty well everyone on this message board doesn’t know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Trump supporters … 🙂 What we can say for sure so far is how much they’ve each come out in special elections … we’ll see what midterms brings. I do also have to be a bit pedantic. “Trump supporters” and “those who voted for Trump” are not quite the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/425 "2018-04-16T15:14:07Z")
My only point as ‘approval ratings’ are meaningless and even counter productive (to what you hope to prove) in the context of a Trump presidency. That’s not to say Trump isn’t narcissistic enough to prefer good ratings but it is no indicator at all of where he stands in the popular vote. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/426 "2018-04-16T16:09:27Z")
In the context of my post all I “hoped to prove” was to correct **asahi** ’s factual error. In the context of the popular vote, they are not _meaningless_, they are _incomplete_ information. In 2016 white voters without a college degree, especially male ones, were less often nonvoters than they usually have been (including in either Obama win) and voted for something completely different - Trump. Meanwhile some who did vote for Obama did not come out for HRC. Do you think that those who are not true Trump supporters but voted because they wanted something different to have a chance will again come out in larger than usual numbers, or revert to the mean if not below it? Do you think that the special elections so far do not in fact indicate that those who usually come out for a D are likely to return to their usual voting habits, if not have fewer nonvoters than is the baseline? And what , in your estimation, do those who voted for Trump give a fuck about? If they are not wanting him there to be a great president (by whatever metric _they_ define that), what do they want him to do there? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/427 "2018-04-16T16:13:25Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And what , in your estimation, do those who voted for Trump give a fuck about? If they are not wanting him there to be a great president (by whatever metric _they_ define that), what do they want him to do there? To kick liberal butt and drink liberal tears, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/428 "2018-04-16T19:36:19Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > To kick liberal butt and drink liberal tears, of course. This. The sooner people realize that, the better it will be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/429 "2018-04-16T21:48:39Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I repeat, Mueller is not looking into his business other than tangentially as it relates to any investigation into Russian interference in the election. As we’ve already seen, he quickly drops anything he finds outside his specific purview onto others to pursue. > > I swear to God, it’s like speaking to the wind. We don’t know if Mueller is investigating anything outside the Russian interference issues, but he is certainly [authorized to do so](https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download)– see items b (ii) and (iii) in that link. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/430 "2018-04-16T21:57:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > What we can say for sure so far is how much they’ve each come out in special elections … we’ll see what midterms brings. > > I do also have to be a bit pedantic. “Trump supporters” and “those who voted for Trump” are not quite the same thing. (post shortened, underline added) Good question. How many special elections have Republican candidates won since the last general election? How many special elections have Democrat candidates won since the last general election? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/431 "2018-04-16T22:32:16Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > If you have a specific argument to make about DSeid’s prediction of likely and non-likely voters, now is the perfect place and time to make it. As I recall **DSeid** said, “_A fair number of those who voted for Trump are likely to become non-voters. A fair number of last cycle non-voters are likely to become voters against Trump and his allies._” That was in response to **up\_the\_junction** ’s statement, "_Well, one thing we can say for sure about the past couple of years is pretty well everyone on this message board doesn’t know their arse from their elbow when it comes to Trump supporters …_ Personally, I believe **up\_the\_junction** ’s statement was spot on. There were a lot of disappointed Hillary worshippers on this and every other message board when ol’ Hillary lost her 2nd attempt to become POTUS. And many posters are still/repeatedly waiting for some imaginary “tipping point” that definitely (this time) means the end of Trump Presidency. You claim **DSeid** made a prediction. I believe that is **DSeid** ’s opinion. Either way, **DSeid** hasn’t defined what a “fair number” of voters would be. Would that be 1200, 12,000, 12,000,000? It would be difficult to make a “specific argument” against a generalization. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/432 "2018-04-16T22:36:20Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > There were a lot of disappointed Hillary worshippers on this and every other message board when ol’ Hillary lost her 2nd attempt to become POTUS. Can you provide a cite for this on this board? I’m not aware of any “Hillary worshippers” (not sure what that is) on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/433 "2018-04-16T22:57:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > There were a lot of disappointed Hillary worshippers on this and every other message board when ol’ Hillary lost her 2nd attempt to become POTUS. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can you provide a cite for this on this board? I’m not aware of any “Hillary worshippers” (not sure what that is) on this board. I don’t recall anyone posting ‘worship’ or anything close to such. But to a true tribalist, the potential violation of the sacred hierarchy posed by advocating for a female candidate is so alarming, that it’s psychologically necessary to characterize those advocates as extremists/worshippers/deranged thinkers. What we really had were a lot of people who felt sincerely that Hillary would be a decent President, and that at the very least she was a better choice than Trump. But a frightened tribalist thinker is incapable of conceiving of such a matter-of-fact rational process. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/434 "2018-04-16T23:06:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can you provide a cite for this on this board? I’m not aware of any “Hillary worshippers” (not sure what that is) on this board. I can’t provide a definition for “Hillary worshippers”, but the election day thread was certainly chock full of disappointment by many Dopers. I think this is the exact point at which the disappointment started to set in: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19763150#post19763150](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19763150#post19763150) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/435 "2018-04-16T23:17:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I can’t provide a definition for “Hillary worshippers”, but the election day thread was certainly chock full of disappointment by many Dopers. I think this is the exact point at which the disappointment started to set in: > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19763150#post19763150](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19763150#post19763150) Being disappointed in Trump makes one a “Hillary worshipper”, huh? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/436 "2018-04-16T23:28:13Z")
During the 2016 campaign, I certainly knew people who were “all in” for Hillary – volunteering for her campaign, attending rallies, etc. Does that / did that make them “Hillary Worshippers”? I don’t think that “ardent supporter” = “worshipper,” but doorhinge doesn’t exactly have a lot of respect for liberals, or Hillary supporters. So, doorhinge, would you call Trump’s biggest fans “Trump Worshippers”? If not, why not? As for me, as a liberal, I felt that Hillary was a flawed candidate – in part because (rightly or wrongly) she had a metric crap-ton of baggage associated with her, which could be (and was) used to motivate conservatives to get out the vote against her. And, frankly, she did herself no favors over her career with dealings that, even if not illegal, could look shady. Was I thrilled about her being the Democratic candidate? Not terribly. But, lordy, I preferred her over Trump, and the daily tweet-explosions and chaos that I feared from his administration (and which have been delivered in excess). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/437 "2018-04-16T23:30:52Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I don’t recall anyone posting ‘worship’ or anything close to such. But to a true tribalist, the potential violation of the sacred hierarchy posed by advocating for a female candidate is so alarming, that it’s psychologically necessary to characterize those advocates as extremists/worshippers/deranged thinkers. > > What we really had were a lot of people who felt sincerely that Hillary would be a decent President, and that at the very least she was a better choice than Trump. But a frightened tribalist thinker is incapable of conceiving of such a matter-of-fact rational process. This is very, very well said. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/438 "2018-04-16T23:34:01Z")
I so want to ask the few thump supporters that I know: “Do you REALLY think Hillary would have been worse than this?” but I fear I know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/439 "2018-04-17T00:12:22Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Good question. How many special elections have Republican candidates won since the last general election? How many special elections have Democrat candidates won since the last general election? That’s _not_ a good question, since the special elections weren’t in random districts: many, many of them were because Trump appointed their hard-right occupant to another office, initiating a special election in a district/state that had previously elected a hard-right candidate. The better question is to what degree the vote has moved along the Democratic/Republican spectrum in those special elections. In how many of those special elections has the vote come out _more_ in favor of Republicans than the previous vote in that district/state? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/440 "2018-04-17T00:20:26Z")
> [@doorhing](#): > > …There were a lot of disappointed Hillary worshippers on this and every other message board when ol’ Hillary lost her 2nd attempt to become POTUS… > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I so want to ask the few thump supporters that I know: “Do you REALLY think Hillary would have been worse than this?” but I fear I know the answer. Do you think referring to someone as a “thump supporter” or “Hillary worshipper” is a good way to engage that person in constructive debate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=23)