# Are we at Trump’s tipping point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944 "2018-03-21T03:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/61 "2018-03-21T18:56:03Z")
I’m certainly not going to predict the demise of the Republican Party, because even the dessicated corpse of a once mighty party is still much more valuable that some no-name startup. Look at how easily Trump was able to take over the Republican Party and remake it in his image. After the Republicans lose disastrously in 2018 and 2020 and for years afterward, somebody is going to take over the party and remake it into a party that can win elections again. Yeah, yeah, it’s premature to discuss the utter failure of the Republicans when they currently control the House, Senate, Presidency, and a majority of Governorships. But the party is marginalizing itself at a furious pace. It’s going to have some spectacular electoral failures over the next couple years, and is going to have to figure out some way to rebuild itself. There are only so many racist old white guys out there, and they’re getting fewer and fewer every day. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/62 "2018-03-21T18:58:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … Then there are those who are further left than that, but they are mostly ignorant college students, so we smile and pat them on the head and send them on their way, hoping they grow up a bit an eventually start contributing useful ideas to the party. > … > When they say something stupid on a blog, or have a protest that has bad optics, we try to explain that these are just kids that are trying to find their way in the world, while the right wing tries to point at them as examples of stupid liberals. We agree that they are stupid liberals, and hope to educate them and make them smart liberals, but we don’t listen to them, and we certainly do not elect them. That’s an interesting perspective, given all the recent hand-wringing over people doing essentially the same thing to some Florida high-schoolers recently. And BTW, thanks for the response. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/63 "2018-03-21T19:00:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s an interesting perspective, given all the recent hand-wringing over people doing essentially the same thing to some Florida high-schoolers recently. > > And BTW, thanks for the response. Oh, you mean the Florida high-schoolers who were SHOT AT??? Is that what you’re referring to? Just asking.:rolleyes: I mean, perish forbid that these kids who saw some of their classmates die at the hands of a gun-wielding maniac should exercise their First Amendment rights…the horror, the horror… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/64 "2018-03-21T19:02:51Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Oh, you mean the Florida high-schoolers who were SHOT AT??? Is that what you’re referring to? Just asking.:rolleyes: Well, at least attended the same school as some kids that were shot at. Yes, those ones. Stupid liberals, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/65 "2018-03-21T19:06:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, at least attended the same school as some kids that were shot at. Yes, those ones. Stupid liberals, right? And kids in different schools are supposed to say “oh well, it wasn’t my school. That means I have no say in the matter.” ? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/66 "2018-03-21T19:22:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s an interesting perspective, given all the recent hand-wringing over people doing essentially the same thing to some Florida high-schoolers recently. > > And BTW, thanks for the response. That is not the same thing as students on a campus wanting a “safe space”, which has some controversial aspect to it, and it is something that could be discussed if both sides could calm down. The far left is upset that they don’t have it, and the far right is pissed that they want it. There are many social justice nuances that make sense in some perspectives, but are pushed as though a student’s personal desires for social contact and interactions should be national policy. That’s when they get a bit stupid, and we tell them to come back when they can handle rational discussions. They go off and vote for Jill Stein or something. Eventually, most of them will grow up and realize that they are actually just being overly sensitive about some things. Not saying all of their complaints are just being over sensitive, and also I don’t entirely blame students who have fought against discrimination their entire lives to be a bit more sensitive about it than those of us who really haven’t. But, they aren’t really ready to have a discussion about it yet. This doesn’t mean that we cannot see when certain things are actually negatively effecting student’s lives, and try to ameliorate them, and them bringing up their problems in their inartful ways does have value, just the solutions that they come up with may not be the best ones. In Florida (and I suppose, all the recent walkouts and protests around the country), this is students wanting an actual safe place from being shot at. Now, are they actually ready to write a gun bill that will address and solve all their problems? No, probably not. Are they able to bring an issue to the attention of the greater population, and ask “the grownups” to come up with a solution? Absolutely. Basically it comes down to that there are three different basic demographics. Those who identify problems, those who identify solutions, and those who are actually responsible for implementing them. I contend that the democrats have many fools in the first catagory, some fools in the second, but not that many in the third, while the republicans have displaced most of the people who used to be responsible for implementing solutions, and replaced them primarily with those who just point out the problems, but are unable to come up with, much less implement, workable solutions. So, nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/67 "2018-03-21T19:25:59Z")
So teenagers across the country that are speaking out telling us adults that they are tired of being scared of being shot while at school are “the far left”? :rolleyes: I’ve been watching these conservative attacks on the Parkland survivors and on school walk outs against gun violence and I gotta say you guys are committing one of the worst political self-owns I think I can remember. Pitting yourselves against kids who have survived mass gun violence and trying to de-legitimize their voices seems like very poor long term strategy. Also, when the hell has it ever worked in human history to tell teenagers to shut up and know their place? But please, by all means, proceed… ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/68 "2018-03-21T19:26:11Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > +1 > . . . > If he’d holding with 40.7% now then if he lucks out a positive trend in the economy a second term is his to lose. > I’ve seen bugger all evidence that the base who elected him have changed their minds, rather its “those dammed librull elites are still stopping our Don” > . . . This is an actual response from a lady I know personally, a Trump supporter, definitely not a bot, she really thinks this way. She entered this _in response to a post about the FIU bridge collapse:_ > [@](#): > > Let’s blame it on Trump. Oh! No big deal we don’t pay any attention to all the liberal crying. Keep the Tweets coming Mr. President you’re driving them crazy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/69 "2018-03-21T19:32:29Z")
@ **k9bfriender** Thanks again for another thoughful response. By “those who are actually responsible for implementing them” do you mean elected (and appointed) public officials? There are some of those with a D next to their name that I’d consider “fools” too, but I’m not terribly interested in quibbling with your “not that many” evaluation. This part: > [@k9bfriender](#): > > … the republicans have displaced most of the people who used to be responsible for implementing solutions, and replaced them primarily with those who just point out the problems, but are unable to come up with, much less implement, workable solutions. … intrigues me though. Is this a problem you’ve noticed just since the last national election in 2016? Is it something you’re arguing goes back to 2010? 1994? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/70 "2018-03-21T19:35:25Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > … Also, when the hell has it ever worked in human history to tell teenagers to shut up and know their place? But please, by all means, proceed… I think **k9bfriender** is contending that it’s working right now, today, in the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/71 "2018-03-21T19:49:55Z")
I think **k9befriender** can speak for him/herself, just like I speak for myself and you speak for yourself. So you do consider the Parkland Survivors and teenage school walk out participants “the far left”? Is anyone you disagree with part of “the far left”? I’m not seeing where you consider the delineation to be? Can you define for us exactly what you consider “the far left”? What sorts of policy preferences do you think they hold? Seems to me you have a far too expansive view of that term. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/72 "2018-03-21T20:05:01Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > … So you do consider the Parkland Survivors and teenage school walk out participants “the far left”? Is anyone you disagree with part of “the far left”? I’m not seeing where you consider the delineation to be? Can you define for us exactly what you consider “the far left”? What sorts of policy preferences do you think they hold? Seems to me you have a far too expansive view of that term. You keep putting “the far left” in quotes in questions addressed to me. Why? I didn’t use that phrase. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/73 "2018-03-21T20:06:03Z")
When you’re so far to the right you make common cause with neo-nazis and the Klan, everything else is far left. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/74 "2018-03-21T20:07:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > @ **k9bfriender** > > Thanks again for another thoughful response. By “those who are actually responsible for implementing them” do you mean elected (and appointed) public officials? There are some of those with a D next to their name that I’d consider “fools” too, but I’m not terribly interested in quibbling with your “not that many” evaluation. You probably wouldn’t. We certainly have allowed some fools to make it to elected office, but I do feel that the republican side of the aisle celebrates it. > [@](#): > > This part: > > intrigues me though. Is this a problem you’ve noticed just since the last national election in 2016? Is it something you’re arguing goes back to 2010? 1994? We can go back forever, if we want to find the root causes of divides between parties, but I would say the wake of the 2008 election is when it really started up. That was when the mainstream conservatives started getting primaried by tea partiers. The republican party has been dragged off the the far right ever since, and has not really done much to put on the breaks. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think **k9bfriender** is contending that it’s working right now, today, in the Democratic Party. That would be a very poor understanding of what I said. I did say that we are not expecting them to write gun bills, but that is not remotely like "to tell teenagers to shut up and know their place ". I said we should listen to them, what their problems are, give them the benefit of the doubt enough to let them propose their solutions, and then work to fix the problems that they have identified. One thing I have always stressed in all of my employees, (and followed when I was an employee), is to never bring up a problem to which you offer no solutions. Now, sometimes (many times) the solutions that are proposed by my employees make no sense. The solution presented does not need to be the one that gets used, it doesn’t even have to be a particularly good one, but it is useful that you have come up with one, because it means that you have a better understanding of the problem. Now, when I see the problem, I come up with a solution, and it may be related to the solution offered by my employee, it may not have anything to do with it, but in either case, I don’t chastise them for not knowing what they are talking about, and tell them that because their solution wasn’t a good one, their problem is not worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/75 "2018-03-21T20:12:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … That would be a very poor understanding of what I said. I did say that we are not expecting them to write gun bills, but that is not remotely like "to tell teenagers to shut up and know their place ". I said we should listen to them, what their problems are, give them the benefit of the doubt enough to let them propose their solutions, and then work to fix the problems that they have identified. > > One thing I have always stressed in all of my employees, (and followed when I was an employee), is to never bring up a problem to which you offer no solutions. Now, sometimes (many times) the solutions that are proposed by my employees make no sense. The solution presented does not need to be the one that gets used, it doesn’t even have to be a particularly good one, but it is useful that you have come up with one, because it means that you have a better understanding of the problem. Now, when I see the problem, I come up with a solution, and it may be related to the solution offered by my employee, it may not have anything to do with it, but in either case, I don’t chastise them for not knowing what they are talking about, and tell them that because their solution wasn’t a good one, their problem is not worth considering. Do you consider the problems brought up by Bernie Sanders and his supporters, or Jill Stein voters to be worth considering? In other words, do you see those groups and the high school walkouts all in the same group of “those who identify problems” (or solutions, even though those solutions aren’t good)? Or do you see a difference between the two groups, where the former are dumb and shouldn’t be taken seriously, so we just smile and pat them on the head, and hope they grow up, while the latter are raising the profile of important issues and so they deserve to be taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/76 "2018-03-21T20:14:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You keep putting “the far left” in quotes in questions addressed to me. Why? I didn’t use that phrase. Sigh. The whole start of this tangent was in post #58. You replied to this: **k9befriender** : “…the way we ignore and marginalize the far left factions…” with this: **HurricanDitka** : “Could you give some examples of this, for those of us that are struggling to think of some?” If the quotes bother you, then ignore them, the quotes aren’t the point. Now, do you want to reply to the actual substance of my post? Or just continue with this nit picking pedantry? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/77 "2018-03-21T20:21:56Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > … Now, do you want to reply to the actual substance of my post? … I didn’t think there was much substance there to reply to, but I’ll give answering your questions a go anyways: > [@Airbeck](#): > > … So you do consider the Parkland Survivors and teenage school walk out participants “the far left”? … Some of them, but I suspect it’s a small minority. I suspect that most of the school walk-outs were probably mostly interested in getting out of class for the day / hour / 17 minutes and took whatever excuse conveniently allowed that to happen. > [@Airbeck](#): > > … Is anyone you disagree with part of “the far left”? … Not everyone I disagree with is part of the far left. I have disagreements with fellow conservatives, with moderates, and plenty of other political persuasions. > [@Airbeck](#): > > … I’m not seeing where you consider the delineation to be? … That’s because, again, I didn’t use the phrase, and wasn’t trying to make such a delineation. “Who does **HD** think is ‘the far left’ and what does he think they believe” wasn’t the thread topic. > [@Airbeck](#): > > … Can you define for us exactly what you consider “the far left”? … Probably not precisely. To the extent that it’s a classification, it’s one with fuzzy edges. > [@Airbeck](#): > > … What sorts of policy preferences do you think they hold? … Weird ones that probably wouldn’t work well in the real world. > [@Airbeck](#): > > … Seems to me you have a far too expansive view of that term. Why the hell did you bother with all of these questions if you’d already made up your mind about the outcome? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/78 "2018-03-21T20:22:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, at least attended the same school as some kids that were shot at. Yes, those ones. Stupid liberals, right? The funny part is that Ditka thinks this sort of thing is great wedge issue for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/79 "2018-03-21T20:26:35Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The funny part is that Ditka thinks this sort of thing is great wedge issue for Republicans. I think it’s a non-issue. Most Americans probably couldn’t tell you what “the Parkland Survivors”[SUP]TM[/SUP] means today. In a few months, almost nobody is going to remember them or care what they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/80 "2018-03-21T20:29:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This raises a question: if/when the Pubs get one more Supreme of their own, would that be enuff for them to say, “Okay! Mission accomplished! We’re done!” and abandon thump like a box of used tissues? IOW would that be the tipping point? (post shortened) Wouldn’t it depend on witch Democrat(s) finally steps up and officially declares that they are running for POTUS in 2020? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=5)