# Are we at Trump’s tipping point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944 "2018-03-21T03:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/101 "2018-03-22T00:17:51Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > [Here you go.](http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1860871_1860876_1861029,00.html) > > A report with as many sources as yours. Great, thank you. We might fairly judge the credibility of this report as “low”, but it would be a stupid and incorrect assertion to claim there have not been any such reports. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/102 "2018-03-22T00:19:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Every time I see this thread title, I think at first that it says “tippling point” and are we not way past that? As in an 89 degree list? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/103 "2018-03-22T00:20:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Great, thank you. We might fairly judge the credibility of this report as “low”, but it would be a stupid and incorrect assertion to claim there have not been any such reports. Agreed? No. For very obvious reasons that you are choosing to ignore rather than just acknowledge that your assertion was incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/104 "2018-03-22T00:22:28Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > No. For very obvious reasons that you are choosing to ignore rather than just acknowledge that your assertion was incorrect. So are you joining **Chisquirrel** in claiming that my assertion (“There have been some reports that the NRA has also recently seen a surge in membership.”) is incorrect? How would you propose going about proving your claim? P.S. I can think of a way to disprove your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/105 "2018-03-22T00:26:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So are you joining **Chisquirrel** in claiming that my assertion (“There have been some reports that the NRA has also recently seen a surge in membership.”) is incorrect? How would you propose going about proving your claim? > > P.S. I can think of a way to disprove your claim. You made a claim that reports exist and did not back it up with any sources. Therefore your claim is invalid. Unless you have a source for it. As it is for any claim about anything. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/106 "2018-03-22T00:27:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So are you joining **Chisquirrel** in claiming that my assertion (“There have been some reports that the NRA has also recently seen a surge in membership.”) is incorrect? How would you propose going about proving your claim? > > P.S. I can think of a way to disprove your claim. This nitpickery tangent seems like a reasonable use of our time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/107 "2018-03-22T00:30:36Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You made a claim that reports exist and did not back it up with any sources. Therefore your claim is invalid. Unless you have a source for it. As it is for any claim about anything. I gave a source, in post #89. Here is is again - [a report](http://theredelephants.com/nra-gained-500000-members-since-parkland-shooting/): > [@](#): > > According to sources, the NRA has gained approximately 500,000 new members since the Parkland shooting. I don’t need to know who the author’s anonymous sources are anymore than you would need to if you asserted that there were reports for something that the WaPo reported on with anonymous sources. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/108 "2018-03-22T00:31:45Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > This nitpickery tangent seems like a reasonable use of our time. :rolleyes: If **Fiveyearlurker** comes away with a greater understanding of how debate works, it’ll be worth it. (insert xkcd comic here) ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/109 "2018-03-22T00:34:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If **Fiveyearlurker** comes away with a greater understanding of how debate works, it’ll be worth it. I definitely learned something about debating with you. I feel silly that it took so long. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/110 "2018-03-22T00:37:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Interesting. If I asked you for a cite, could you provide one? Are you kidding? [Twelve Million Americans can’t be wrong!](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/07/conspiracy-theory-paranoia-aliens-illuminati-beyonce-vaccines-cliven-bundy-jfk) > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Great, thank you. We might fairly judge the credibility of this report as “low”, but it would be a stupid and incorrect assertion to claim there have not been any such reports. Agreed? Well, yes, but it would be even stupider to bring up these reports in a discussion of the royal family as though they held any relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/111 "2018-03-22T00:41:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you kidding? [Twelve Million Americans can’t be wrong!](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/07/conspiracy-theory-paranoia-aliens-illuminati-beyonce-vaccines-cliven-bundy-jfk)Well, yes, but it would be even stupider to bring up these reports in a discussion of the royal family as though they held any relevance. Blasphemy! All citations are legitimate! ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/112 "2018-03-22T00:51:01Z")
I’ll admit I was wrong, in as much that there are BLOGGERS reporting a surge in membership, yet the NRA has failed to comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/113 "2018-03-22T01:03:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, at least attended the same school as some kids that were shot at. Yes, those ones. Stupid liberals, right? May it please the court, then, to say what the MAXIMUM distance from a school shooter a kid can be before he’s no longer allowed to speak out against the mindless proliferation of guns? Ten feet? Twenty? Give me a number. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/114 "2018-03-22T01:32:47Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > May it please the court, then, to say what the MAXIMUM distance from a school shooter a kid can be before he’s no longer allowed to speak out against the mindless proliferation of guns? Ten feet? Twenty? Give me a number. Any kid can comment on anything they want. The rest of us decide how much credence we give to their recommendations. It’s my opinion that the “Never Again MSD” members are labeling themselves “survivors” in a silly attempt to help their recommendations garner additional sympathy and attention than they would not merit otherwise. I suppose by some expansive definitions of “survivor” they qualify, by merit of having been students at the same school, but I think it’s a bit of a dilution of the term “survivor” in some of it’s uses (things like “rape survivor” or “cancer survivor”). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/115 "2018-03-22T04:36:08Z")
The NRA has [apparently been cagey about stating exactly how many members they have](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/26/nobody-knows-how-many-members-the-nra-has-but-its-tax-returns-offer-some-clues/?utm_term=.46ae5cbf20ff), though Wayne LaPierre has apparently mentioned “five million members” in past years, and a page on the [NRA’s own web site](https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/) currently mentions “our nearly five million members.” Assuming (as I think we should) that the NRA isn’t _understating_ the size of their membership, then the source to which HurricaneDitka has linked would be suggesting that they have gained at least 10% in their total membership in the span of just five weeks. It’s _possible_, but I find it a little hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/116 "2018-03-22T09:02:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is this a problem you’ve noticed just since the last national election in 2016? Is it something you’re arguing goes back to 2010? 1994? I think 1994 was when the GOP became more of a consistent voting bloc. “A European-style party,” observers at the time said, disapprovingly. There seems to have long been a subset of Congressmen who seemed to be screwball loudmouths who might be happier back on the hog farm. The post-1994 regime has kept them more in line with the caucus. But really, it’s a matter of the Koch brothers deciding to abandon the Libertarian Party and run all their efforts through the GOP, and succeeding with that strategy for decades. So, it goes back to that decision, in 1981? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/117 "2018-03-22T12:29:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I gave a source, in post #89. Here is is again - [a report](http://theredelephants.com/nra-gained-500000-members-since-parkland-shooting/): > > I don’t need to know who the author’s anonymous sources are anymore than you would need to if you asserted that there were reports for something that the WaPo reported on with anonymous sources. A website nobody’s heard of, focused on selling red T-shirts with pictures of elephants is just as credible as [The Washington Post.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P49iVsdItkM) Got it. You _do_ seem to be very much in tune with news dissemination in post-rational America, **Hurricane**. But why bother Googling for Red Elephants? Wouldn’t it be simpler just to link to some random social media post? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/118 "2018-03-22T13:51:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not deliberate. Overall your position seems very reasonable and you’ve done a good job of clarifying it for me. Thanks! 🙂 > > Looking back through my posts to you, most of the one-liners I pulled from longer posts were seeking clarification on just that portion of the post (#58 and #69). I really was just curious how your position on Bernie Bros interacted with your position on the Parkland students. I know you don’t do the pit, but if you check out the bernie bros thread, you may get a sense of what I am talking about. There are posters there who are still bernie or busters, and insist that if we the democrats do not nominate a socialist in 2020, then they will not support the party. I was a bit harsh on them, but came down to saying we just aren’t going to nominate a socialist. If that means that they cannot support the democratic party, then they are welcome to their own. I then made some disparaging comments about sending them cake and icecream at the kiddie table. Those are the people that the mainstream democratic party has been pretty good at preventing from taking it over. I do feel that the republican party has not done as a good a job policing its constituents, and has been taken over by the extreme wings. You have some democrats in office who do say some foolish things, but they generally get at best a :rolleyes: reaction from the rest of the party, and often times outright dismissal or condemnation. I really don’t think that the dems have anything equivallant to [Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.)](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/claudia-tenney-deep-state-ben-carson-table_us_5ab2d69fe4b008c9e5f3da41?). And she’s just the one in the news _today._ > [@](#): > > “Somebody in the deep state ― it was not one of his people, apparently ― ordered a table, like a conference room table or whatever it was, for a room,” Tenney said. “And that’s what the cost was. Ben Carson tried to — he said, “You know how hard it is to turn it back because of the way that the procurement happens?” ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/119 "2018-03-22T14:39:24Z")
The deep state is now placing subversive office furniture orders? Thanks, Obama. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/120 "2018-03-22T15:13:22Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I feel like Republicans are finally jumping ship. Today’s revelations must make him a lame duck at best. And they already got their tax cuts. It’s not revelations that will make the GOP jump off the Trump train; it’s the threat of losing their jobs. The unfortunate reality, though, is that much of the GOP - how much I’m not sure but a significant amount - is beholden to a plutocratic machine. That’s who writes their campaign checks. That’s the machine that funds their campaigns, their propaganda apparatus, and keeps them gainfully employed. Now some are perhaps less tethered to that machine than others. Some are tired of being enslaved by the Kochs and Mercers, so they just decided to quit. But the ones who want to keep their jobs march to this tune. Even if the polls predict losing both houses, Chuck Grassley and company keep their jobs. It’s too late for those who are running for re-election to quit now. After all, that machine also gerrymandered their districts and hyper-politicized the party in such a way that they can’t win by being centrist. It’s either “Commit to crazy” or “Retire”. Nothing will change unless the entire Republican party gets drubbed in 2018 and 2020, and by drubbed I mean to the point of near political extinction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=7)