# Are we at Trump’s tipping point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 21, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944 "2018-03-21T03:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/161 "2018-03-25T00:05:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Oh, yes; the list of possible ways a President could create a rise in the S&P is lengthy. > > All it takes is utter shameless irresponsibility on the part of the President. > > (And I think we’ve got that covered!) but, but, but we have a shameless and irresponsible President and the S&P is _dropping_. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/162 "2018-03-25T01:10:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They can’t make it go up on command, and it does not serve their interests to have it go down. Agreed? Nope. Don’t agree. Have you not heard of short selling? It’s clear that they don’t give a fuck what it makes them look like. They don’t care about the future either. A quick buck is all that matters. Do you know nothing about DJT and our republican congress? Many want a crash as an excuse to get rid of those pesky social programs. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/163 "2018-03-25T01:45:06Z")
From the Clusterfuck thread: > [@The Trump Administration: A Clusterfuck in the Making](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-a-clusterfuck-in-the-making/774070/18445): > > Coulter and others are quite pissed at Trump, which I posted about in the “[Trump Vetos Omnibus Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20862896&postcount=16)” thread. Here’s a sample: > > “ I will never sign another bill like this again” > > Yeah, because you’ll be impeached. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/977239091673751552) Have some of thump’s fans reached their tipping point? Oh joy, oh rapture. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/164 "2018-03-25T01:53:29Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > From the Clusterfuck thread: > Have some of thump’s fans reached their tipping point? > > Oh joy, oh rapture. 🙂 You may have missed this: > [@Bone](#): > > Thing Fish and k9 - what happens in the Pit stays in the Pit. Don’t drag it here. > > [/moderating] There is a reason there are separate forums. Crossposting is generally frowned on unless somehow directly relevant. In the case of bringing things in from the Pit, it’s even more frowned on. No more of that. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/165 "2018-03-25T09:45:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > From the Clusterfuck thread: > Have some of thump’s fans reached their tipping point? > > Oh joy, oh rapture. 🙂 Heh…Ann Coulter, the woman with her fingers on the pulse of…her neck. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/166 "2018-03-25T11:01:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Wouldn’t it depend on witch Democrat(s) finally steps up and officially declares that they are running for POTUS in 2020? The Witch of Benghazi definitely won’t run again, and I doubt if the Pocahontas Witch will either. The Witches of Endor and Goodlett Place are too old. Kamala Harris is widely touted — with neither parent born in the U.S.A. the GOP will have a field day with her — but I don’t know which witch coven she is affiliated with. Maybe the D’s should run another warlock instead of a witch? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/167 "2018-03-25T11:47:42Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > You could add elimination of the patent office … How would that increase US company share prices? ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/168 "2018-03-25T12:21:52Z")
Isamu, Sorry, the exchange was facetious. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/169 "2018-03-25T13:10:49Z")
2018 could prove to be the tipping point for Trump. The RCP approval averages have trended positive for the year so far. Progressives who view the administration as disastrous, do so at their peril. Trump is very successfully concentrating his hold on power. Trump is the product of a wrinkle in our democratic system. He does not have the support of a majority of the population. But he does not need the majority of the people because the electoral college represents geography, not population. He has the luxury of being able to ignore California and New York. Trump needs a war. NK is the easiest engagement, but it borders on Russia and China. Iran has the advantage of being a holy war. Iran is the most likely. The problem with wars these days is that they are not profitable in the long term. Had we made Iraq a US territory, subjugated it’s people and confiscated it’s oil, we might have gained from the venture. Instead we just made a few Iraqis very rich and cost Joe American a lot of money. Trump may not make the same mistake. Trump may burn, rape and then pillage. It could be very profitable. We may be watching the turning point for the US. Crane ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/170 "2018-03-25T13:47:04Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Heh…Ann Coulter, the woman with her fingers on the pulse of…her neck. Yeah really — tell us Ann why would the Congress impeach a President for signing bills THEY pass? Last I looked the Freedumb/Teabag Caucus is a minority. That thing with the budget bill could be seen as a called bluff — Combover Boy: “Hey Senate, remember, last time I said I’m not afraid of a shutdown, I may veto this bill as it stands.” Senate: “Whatevs. Oh look, we passed it. And half of us are on the plane home by the time you read this. Your call, Current Resident.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/171 "2018-03-25T21:36:18Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > but, but, but we have a shameless and irresponsible President and the S&P is _dropping_. You’re implying that a shameless and irresponsible President cannot make money by making the market _drop_? enipla already answered that incorrect notion: > [@enipla](#): > > Have you not heard of short selling? … If you’re unfamiliar with the concept: > [@](#): > > Short selling is the sale of a security that is not owned by the seller or that the seller has borrowed. Short selling is motivated by the belief that a security’s price will decline … > **[Short Selling: Pros, Cons, and Examples](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/shortselling.asp#ixzz5AnakSYQk)** > > Short selling occurs when an investor borrows a security, sells it on the open market, and expects to repurchase it for less money. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/172 "2018-03-25T22:19:00Z")
I understand it well, thanks. Just pointing out that shameless & irresponsible can move the market in both directions - as we have seen since 11/8. irresponsible about taxes - up irresponsible about trade wars - down ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/173 "2018-03-25T22:54:54Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I understand it well, thanks. Just pointing out that shameless & irresponsible can move the market in both directions - … Was anyone disputing that? My first post on the topic was in response to a HurricaneDitka claim, which was obviously false: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They can’t make it go up on command, and it does not serve their interests to have it go down. Outside of HD, I haven’t seen anyone claiming that presidents can’t move markets. ? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/174 "2018-03-25T23:26:11Z")
No dispute but clearly, I failed at a humorous addition to your example to HD. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/175 "2018-03-26T13:11:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You’re implying that a shameless and irresponsible President cannot make money by making the market _drop_? That’s not really Trump’s thing though. Trump is a shyster, not a stocks guy. His scams are weirdly low class, things like forcing government officials to stay in his hotels and then charging them an arm and a leg so he can fleece the expense accounts. It works, but it’s small time shit. If Trump is making huge bucks from his “Presidency” it’s not from clever market manipulation, something that he has no experience with and is probably not bright enough to really grasp. It’s obviously going to be from influence peddling, very likely from having debts forgiven in exchange for favors. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/176 "2018-03-26T13:55:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s not really Trump’s thing though. Trump is a shyster, not a stocks guy. His scams are weirdly low class, things like forcing government officials to stay in his hotels and then charging them an arm and a leg so he can fleece the expense accounts. It works, but it’s small time shit. > > If Trump is making huge bucks from his “Presidency” it’s not from clever market manipulation, something that he has no experience with and is probably not bright enough to really grasp. It’s obviously going to be from influence peddling, very likely from having debts forgiven in exchange for favors. I don’t think anyone is claiming that he is intentionally driving down the stock market. Just that his buffoonery and idiocy could potentially be highly influential to the market in a negative way, whatever his intention. ---
**Author:** ![LoneRhino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lonerhino/32/1311_2.png) [@LoneRhino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoneRhino)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/177 "2018-03-26T17:29:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Basically it comes down to that there are three different basic demographics. Those who identify problems, those who identify solutions, and those who are actually responsible for implementing them. Thank you, I never thought of it this way. This probably explains why I couldn’t support Sanders. I agree with a lot of his positions but I think he mainly does step 1 and not much else. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/178 "2018-03-26T21:40:51Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … Outside of HD, I haven’t seen anyone claiming that presidents can’t move markets. ? Just to correct the record here, I never claimed “that presidents can’t move markets”. I said that “the President has limited influence over the stock market”. He can’t make it move the way he wants at will. Things they do certainly have an effect at times, but it’s unpredictable. They’re not exercising unilateral control over the markets, making them go up and down whenever they please, however much they want. That’s my claim (to the extent that such an obvious fact needs to be considered a claim). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/179 "2018-03-26T22:06:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just to correct the record here, I never claimed “that presidents can’t move markets”. I said that “the President has limited influence over the stock market”. He can’t make it move the way he wants at will. Well, then you excluded Trump wanting the market to move down, so you’re making a very limited claim indeed. My claim is that Trump wants the market to go up, but has an extremely dim concept of what will move the market up and down. He also wants to do random bullshit like starting a trade war, and he prioritizes “doing random bullshit” over not moving the market down; he may therefore deliberately take actions that will foreseeably move the market down, and the only thing that keeps him from deliberately moving the market down is that he’s too goddamned stupid to connect the dots. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944/180 "2018-03-26T22:36:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Well, then you excluded Trump wanting the market to move down, so you’re making a very limited claim indeed. > > My claim is that Trump wants the market to go up, but has an extremely dim concept of what will move the market up and down. He also wants to do random bullshit like starting a trade war, and he prioritizes “doing random bullshit” over not moving the market down; he may therefore deliberately take actions that will foreseeably move the market down, and the only thing that keeps him from deliberately moving the market down is that he’s too goddamned stupid to connect the dots. You’d agree that some days the market moves one direction or the other regardless of what the President’s does or does not do, correct? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-at-trump-s-tipping-point/810944.md?page=10)