# Are we being duped again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621 "2002-10-17T04:40:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/1 "2002-10-17T04:40:24Z")
How much have we been taken by propaganda this time around with respect to Iraq? During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, there were reports of atrocities such as babies being dumped from incubators, which turned out to be totally false. But even worse than that a PR agency was used to create the case to sell to the US public and the world. [Propaganda that led to the orignal Gulf War](http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html) I think we’re being duped again. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/2 "2002-10-17T05:15:03Z")
I try my best not to be duped. I cannot speak for the teeming minions out there who are, though. I guess not enough people read the SDMB. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/3 "2002-10-17T08:25:02Z")
Just like all those Iraqi soldiers and tanks lined up on the Saudi Arabia border, right? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/4 "2002-10-17T08:27:42Z")
I must be really far behind in my propaganda reading. This is the first I’ve heard about kuwaiti babies and incubators. And me a good war-monger! ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/5 "2002-10-17T10:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*Just like all those Iraqi soldiers and tanks lined up on the Saudi Arabia border, right? \*\* They were, weren’t they? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/6 "2002-10-17T12:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I think we’re being duped again. Why? What aspect of the current charges against Iraq do you not believe? Also, there is no indication that w/o the babies story we wouldn’t have gone to war before… ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/7 "2002-10-17T13:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\* > Why? What aspect of the current charges against Iraq do you not believe? > > Also, there is no indication that w/o the babies story we wouldn’t have gone to war before… \*\* According to the article it took more than the babies story: > [@](#): > > Similar unsubstantiated stories appeared at the UN a few weeks later, where a team of “witnesses,” coached by Hill&Knowlton, gave “testimony” (although no oath was ever taken) about atrocities in Iraq. It was later learned that the seven witnesses used false names and even identities in one case. In an unprecedented move, the US was allowed to present a video created by Hill & Knowlton to the entire security council. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/8 "2002-10-17T14:35:04Z")
But that doesn’t prove that we went to war because of the babies, or that we wouldn’t have gone to war without them. Also, what part of the current case against Iraq do think is made up? Your thesis seems to be that we were duped in the past, and therefore are being duped now. I suggest that we were not duped in the past, that the babies story was an insignificant part of the coalition’s motive in going to war, and that you have provided no evidence that we are being duped again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/9 "2002-10-17T14:45:18Z")
Not for lack of trying. The Resident, standing shoulder to shoulder with Tony “The Poodle” Blair, brandishes a UN report to the effect that Iraq, as of 1998, was six months from developing “da Bomb”? He is quoted as saying “I don’t know how much more proof you need”. It is later revealed that no such report exists, or ever did. The Resident points to an assassination attempt on his father, Bush the Elder, by the Iraqi government. Seymour Hersch, in an article in the _New Yorker_, shows that to be a matter open to considerable skepticism. The Resident points to Iraq’s refusal to comply with UN Resolutions. The list of other international scofflaws includes: The US, Israel, Russia, _et. al._ Just off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/10 "2002-10-17T14:57:13Z")
That missing pilot, is another one ? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/11 "2002-10-17T15:27:47Z")
Not to worry, nobody has mentioned the word “draft”, so far. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/12 "2002-10-17T15:55:32Z")
The wait is for Hollywood to start churning out movies of All American Heroes mowing down scores of suicide bombers and their evil Iraqi officers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/13 "2002-10-17T16:01:49Z")
[Why? What aspect of the current charges against Iraq do you not believe?] What charges have actually been substantiated? The burden is on the White House to prove the allegations DO have merit, not on the rest of the world to prove they DON’T ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/14 "2002-10-17T16:42:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\*But that doesn’t prove that we went to war because of the babies, or that we wouldn’t have gone to war without them. Also, what part of the current case against Iraq do think is made up? > > Your thesis seems to be that we were duped in the past, and therefore are being duped now. > > I suggest that we were not duped in the past, that the babies story was an insignificant part of the coalition’s motive in going to war, and that you have provided no evidence that we are being duped again. \*\* I offer up this quote from “Columbia Journalism Review, 1992” that I pulled from [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/military/stamp.htm) > [@](#): > > Nayirah’s testimony came at a time when Americans were wondering how to respond to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait on August 2. Her story was cited frequently in the congressional debate over war authority, which was approved by only five votes in the Senate. President Bush mentioned it often as a reason for taking firm action. It was a major factor in building public backing for war. The **story** in question is the incubator story. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/15 "2002-10-17T17:03:02Z")
Easyphil, are you claiming that once again, the American populace is being duped into war by the Kuwaiti Government? I didn’t know that the Kuwaitis were even interested in fighting Iraq this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/16 "2002-10-17T17:03:25Z")
I’m not saying it wasn’t a factor, what I was saying is that there is no evidence that, in the absence of that factor, that the war would not have happened. Perhaps some other factor would have received more attention. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/17 "2002-10-17T17:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kniz \* > \*\*Not to worry, nobody has mentioned the word “draft”, so far. 😛 \*\* Draft indeed. My son just turned 18. We may be being duped. However, I don’t believe we would be hostile towards Iraq(that is, Mr. Hussein) without good reason. I can’t imagine that there’s some conspiracy just so we can smack somebody around, gain more control over the world’s oil supplies, manipulate the economy or influence public opinion. In short, we’re probably being “duped” quite often. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/18 "2002-10-17T17:15:31Z")
Without the oil factor, the US would not be interested. Lots of crap is happening around the world, and lots more happened before. Invasions, tribal wars, civil wars, famines, you name it, we got it. So what has the US been doing with all these things? From what I heard, very little. A number of countries have CBN (chemical biological nuclear) weapons, the US being the biggest one. It is also the only one the refuses to develop and test them. So what is the **real** reason that the US wants to attack Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/19 "2002-10-17T17:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*Easyphil, are you claiming that once again, the American populace is being duped into war by the Kuwaiti Government? I didn’t know that the Kuwaitis were even interested in fighting Iraq this time around. \*\* I’m claiming the American populace is being duped. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621/20 "2002-10-17T18:00:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EasyPhil \* > \*\*How much have we been taken by propaganda this time around with respect to Iraq? During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, there were reports of atrocities such as babies being dumped from incubators, which turned out to be totally false. But even worse than that a PR agency was used to create the case to sell to the US public and the world. > > [Propaganda that led to the orignal Gulf War](http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html) > > I think we’re being duped again. \*\* ::sigh:: **EasyPhil,** you do understand the nature of proof, don’t you? You will shortly be providing a link to a Gallup poll from 1990 in which American voters were asked, “If the Iraqis weren’t throwing babies into incubators, would you still support a war to liberate Kuwait?,” right? Ya see, there is a difference between correlation and causation. It may be that false stories were being spread about Iraqis tossing babies into incubators at the same time the majority of Americans supported the Gulf War. You have yet to demonstrate, or even attempt to demonstrate, that these stories (which I, like **spooje,** never heard before) had any impact on support for the war, much less a that but for these stories, the American public would have opposed the war. If I were to say who has been duped here, the American public by propaganda, or you by a misleading commentary, I’m putting my money on you. Sua [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-duped-again/132621.md?page=2)