# Are we being lied to about the Amazon rainforest burning's effect on earth's oxygen levels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378 "2019-08-28T19:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/21 "2019-08-30T03:11:57Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > By this argument, if the natives up and decided to burn the place down we should support it. > > I’m not sure I like this argument. Or lets say those natives get tired of living a primitive lifestyle and support building a road and power lines into their village. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/22 "2019-08-30T03:14:47Z")
They should be happy to live their primitive life and run around naked so rich western eco types can go down and take their picture. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/23 "2019-08-30T04:20:22Z")
I think Brazil should charge the world an air tax. They could spend that money employing their citizens to maintain the integrity of the rain forest. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/24 "2019-08-30T10:56:04Z")
Please read my contributions to the earlier thread. Especially these posts. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21826968&postcount=36](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21826968&postcount=36) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21829554&postcount=45](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21829554&postcount=45) In short, the oxygen levels will not be measurably affected by the Amazon fires. But the carbon dioxide levels could be severely affected. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/25 "2019-08-30T10:58:10Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > They should be happy to live their primitive life and run around naked so rich western eco types can go down and take their picture. Which indigenous Brazilian have you listened to, or spoken with, or read the writings of, that leads you to think this is anything remotely related to reality? I mean, since you’re calling folks racist and all. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/26 "2019-08-30T11:32:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Which indigenous Brazilian have you listened to, or spoken with, or read the writings of, that leads you to think this is anything remotely related to reality? I mean, since you’re calling folks racist and all. Dontcha know, if it weren’t for meddling rich foreigners, the indigenous people would willingly sell their land for a fair and openly negotiated price and move to a nice quiet suburb and take up knitting. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/27 "2019-08-30T12:25:33Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > By this argument, if the natives up and decided to burn the place down we should support it. The argument is that we should more heavily weight the preferences of the original people who live in that forest and derive their entire livelihoods from it. To be logically consistent, that would mean we weigh their opinions more if they want to burn it down. But even an elementary view of history shows that natives consistently are the ones who want to preserve their forests while drooling capitalist morons want to destroy it for extractive purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/28 "2019-08-30T13:04:55Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Dontcha know, if it weren’t for meddling rich foreigners, the indigenous people would willingly sell their land for a fair and openly negotiated price and move to a nice quiet suburb and take up knitting. Kind of arrogant of you. What if they just want a damn higher standard of living than living in a mud hut? What if they want a way to have commerce and trade with the outside world? What if they want electricity? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/29 "2019-08-30T13:52:49Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Dont get me wrong, I hate the idea of virgin forests going away. > > However on the other side I know we here in the US did this long ago so how do we have the right to tell Brazilians not to do the same? It’s kind of racist and arrogant… ‘We did something terrible so everyone else should get to do it also’ isn’t a very good argument. ‘We got rich by doing terrible things so we should spend some of that money paying other people not to do the same terrible things’ is a pretty good one, IMO. But just ‘even though we found out that was a bad idea everybody gets one round of doing it anyway’ isn’t. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Kind of arrogant of you. What if they just want a damn higher standard of living than living in a mud hut? What if they want a way to have commerce and trade with the outside world? What if they want electricity? How about we pay attention to what indigenous people are actually saying? I haven’t time right now to make a study of the issue, and I’m sure they’re not all saying the same thing. But I’ve seen at least a couple of articles showing indigenous people at the forefront of protests against the fires. And I have no idea whether they’re living in “mud huts” with no electricity, let alone whether if they are they prefer living in their own mud huts to renting in high rises. For that matter, there are lots of ways to have commerce and trade with the outside world, and even to get electricity, many of which don’t require burning down one’s home first. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/30 "2019-08-30T14:19:40Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Kind of arrogant of you. What if they just want a damn higher standard of living than living in a mud hut? What if they want a way to have commerce and trade with the outside world? What if they want electricity? What if they don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/31 "2019-08-30T15:06:16Z")
BBC had a good article earlier this week sorting out the falsehoods and realities: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49450925](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49450925) That article linked to another one, in which one graphic showed the acres de-forested in July were 2.5 times the previous worst month (although the chart only goes back to 2015): [The Amazon in Brazil is on fire - how bad is it? - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49433767) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/32 "2019-08-30T15:26:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Kind of arrogant of you. What if they just want a damn higher standard of living than living in a mud hut? What if they want a way to have commerce and trade with the outside world? What if they want electricity? Remind me again of what position is racist? Christ almighty. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/33 "2019-08-30T15:56:50Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > BBC had a good article earlier this week sorting out the falsehoods and realities: [Amazon rainforest fires: Ten readers' questions answered](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49450925) > > That article linked to another one, in which one graphic showed the acres de-forested in July were 2.5 times the previous worst month (although the chart only goes back to 2015): [The Amazon in Brazil is on fire - how bad is it?](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49433767) Thanks for that great link which answers some of my questions. Some worth pulling out - > [@](#): > > So far this year, the equivalent of 228 megatonnes has been released, according to the Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service. This is the highest level since 2010. … > > … there is a case to be made that some fire-adapted forests benefit from fires - they can help clear the forest and allow trees space to grow stronger. > > But this is not the situation right now in the Amazon, says Yadvinder Malhi, Professor of Ecosystem Science at the University of Oxford. “These are fires that we are concerned about,” he says. The humid forests of the Amazon have no adaptation to fire and suffer immense damage. Almost all fires in humid forests are started by people. … “The forest takes around 20-40 years if it’s allowed to regenerate,” says Prof Malhi. > > But any fires that are currently burning will leave the surviving trees more vulnerable to drought and repeated fires. … > > … the immediate effect of the fires will be on the climate of South America. Reduced rain fall is likely, leading to a more intensive dry season. > > “The carbon emission could contribute to global warming,” he adds, but the longer term global impact is “more difficult to pin down”. > > In the long-term, scientists have told the BBC the fires could make the Paris climate target more difficult to achieve. … > > … “It’s hard to overstate the importance of these forests for indigenous peoples,” he says. "They depend on them for food, medicines, clothing and a sense of identity and belonging. > > But the incentives to steal these resources are high and “sadly it’s not a question of one or two rogue actors”, Mr Mazower says. He says this could be the “worst moment for the indigenous people of the Amazon” since the military dictatorship, which ended in the 1980s. … Great article. Thanks again for the link. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/34 "2019-08-30T19:31:28Z")
I think it’s clear that the fires themselves are bad enough for many reasons but one doesnt have to say it’s 20% of the worlds oxygen to make a point how important the amazon is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/35 "2019-08-31T04:26:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I think it’s clear that the fires themselves are bad enough for many reasons but one doesnt have to say it’s 20% of the worlds oxygen to make a point how important the amazon is. Indeed, but I will have to point out here that [mainstream media was already well known for getting things wrong about science.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdnZ1l5TxJk) Point here that it is almost obligatory to point out that thereafter a lot of the media from the right and blogessors then grab those errors and then make a huge talking point about ‘most scientists getting wrong’ regarding an issue like climate science when it was the news writers who did get it wrong. What scientists are saying is not the same as the mainstream reports it, and then it is even less so when the right wing media gets to it when their intention is to seed doubts not only about non-right wing media but about the science itself. [That crucial part about the science being more accurate than the media is usually skipped when histories like this one are ‘examined’ later.](https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1) ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378/36 "2019-09-07T19:13:55Z")
To go back to the OP, I’d say no, we aren’t being lied to. We just aren’t paying attention. You have to pick your sources. I don’t watch CNN, but all I seem to read is stories about how the Amazon _ **isn’t** _ responsible for 20 percent of the O2. For example, here’s a Chicago Tribune headline “Is the Amazon the ‘lungs of the world’? Northwestern scientist says rainforest not source of 20 percent of Earth’s oxygen, but fires can add to greenhouse effect” which is true. Macron misspoke. I’m not going to say he lied, but he’s been corrected over and over. The general population seems to think that O2 and CO2 are roughly equal parts of the atmosphere, whereas O2 is a fifth of the atmosphere, and CO2 is measured in parts per million. A trivial amount but that slight amount of CO2 helps kept warm. Unfortunately, it’s gone up about 25% ([320ppm to 400ppm](https://www.noaa.gov/news/global-carbon-dioxide-growth-in-2018-reached-4th-highest-on-record)) just over my lifetime, so now that’s keeping us more than a bit too warm. I don’t know the effect of burning a rain-forest, but it’s not going to take a lot of CO2 to shift the curve up still more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-being-lied-to-about-the-amazon-rainforest-burnings-effect-on-earths-oxygen-levels/839378.md?page=1)