# Are we done with James Bond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850 "2005-11-26T23:13:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/21 "2005-11-27T10:22:30Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Jesus, that’d be a riot! A semi-incompetent, near-rapist, troublesome agent with a penchant for sleeping with officials’ wives and sending bogus status reports back home. Heh. Heh, indeed. But those are the vibes I get that Connery was going for in the early sixties (but couldn’t play out) and that’s a James Bond I’d love to see now. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/22 "2005-11-27T10:40:59Z")
I’m by no means a Bond connoisseur, though I’ve enjoyed many of the movies growing up. I’ve never read the books and have no idea what the “Fleming Bond” really would be. But as a casual Bond fan (read: guy who will pony up $10 to see the next movie if it looks fun) I think there’s room for Bond so long as it changes from what it’s been recently. Couple suggestions: Make Bond R-rated. Give me a Bond that gets freaky with the Bond girls and can really get his hand dirty when it comes right down to it. Lemme see a little rage. It worked for the Comic genre and would work for Bond I think. Purists would of course hate it, but as far as making it a viable movie franchise this would work. Make Bond movies period pieces. Instead of mutating his mission statement and inventing new bad guys, set all the Bond movies in the Cold War era, complete with free love motifs and oversimplified politics. Trying to make Bond into some 21st century hero doesn’t work. Of course both those things would remove some of the more quaint Bondisms that people have loved, but it would make the movies compelling again. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/23 "2005-11-27T16:37:48Z")
I don’t think Bond is necessarily done because he is “sooo Cold War”. He may in fact be done because we have all been there/done that and are just tired of the Character. To make it work I think they are going I think they have to make James Bond: License to Kill II. (L2K) 🙂 IMO LTK saved the franchise. They had to update to the 90’s and could easily have killed the series by doing so (_same Challange facing Casino Royale and Craig_). So they introduced Brosnan, made M into Judi D, Bond uses condoms, he was an orphan that may/may not have been used by the state … but still it was true enough left of the past to pass muster to folks like most of us who obviously care enough to post. That is not to say L2K was the greatest Bond ever, Indeed its greatest merit was introducing a good-but-not-great-Bond that could last 10 years or so & act as a bridge from the 80’s to the new millenuium … I submit, and think we all agree, that the series was creaking mightily by the 80’s. Famke Janssen as Xenia Onatopp was a stupid villianess. She loves nothing more than crushing men to death with her thighs – say that twice & it is just silly … but the fight between her and Bond in the sauna is very, very good – & the whole movie is like that. Silly dive for the plane – but sort of kick butt too. Same with the bungee. Same with Robbie C as a Russian crime boss … Overall I give it more than a gentleman’s “C”, maybe a B and my point is that is all Casino Royale needs to do to deliver another 2-3 movies for the Craig era ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/24 "2005-11-27T16:53:06Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Give me a Bond that gets freaky with the Bond girls and can really get his hand dirty… What? Are you talking fisting? 😛 ‘Getting ones hands dirty’ reminds me of _Dr. No_ where Bond shoots an unarmed man. Sure the guy deserved it, but it was still rather cold-blooded. The Fleming Bond was a rather cold creature. And unlike the film Bonds, he didn’t always rely on a gadget to get him out of a scrape. He usually had his fists and a gun, and had to _think_ his way out of situations. I liked _Goldfinger_ (the film) when Bond is going to be bisected by the laser. He pretty much _panics_. There were times in the literary Bond where he was just stuck. There was the chair in _Casino Royale_. The one with the hole in it, and Bond’s testicles… Well, anyway. Bond was more of a hard case in the early films. He was even moreso in the books. I wonder if audiences will accept a return to the older, harder character. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/25 "2005-11-27T16:58:16Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > The obligatory James Bond Film Festival links. 😉 > > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 1: Dr. No](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=194271) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 2: From Russia with Love](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=195426) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 3: Goldfinger](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=197003) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 4: Thunderball](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=198872) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 5: You Only Live Twice](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=200355) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 6: On Her Majesty’s Secret Service](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=201997) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 7: Diamonds are Forever](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=202333) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 8: Live and Let Die](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=203474) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 9: The Man with the Golden Gun](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=203688) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 10: The Spy Who Loved Me](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205080) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 11: Moonraker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=205291) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 12: For Your Eyes Only](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=206734) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 13: Octopussy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=211103) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 14: A View to a Kill](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=212749) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 15: The Living Daylights](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=214160) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 16: License to Kill](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=215589) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 17: Goldeneye](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=218148) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 18: Tomorrow Never Dies](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257650) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 19: The World Is Not Enough](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=258823) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 20: Die Another Day](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262580) > [The James Bond Film Festival. Part 21: Casino Royale (1954)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=264712) > [THe James Bond Film Festival. Part 22: Casino Royale (1967)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6070594) Why come _[Never Say Never Again](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086006/)_ doesn’t make the list? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/26 "2005-11-27T17:28:07Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Why come _[Never Say Never Again](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086006/)_ doesn’t make the list? It’s not canon. Neither were the two versions of _Casino Royale_, which is why they’re last on the list. I’ve seen _Never Say Never_, and I’ve been meaning to make it Part 23. Only my Bond-watching was thrown into a bit of a shambles when I lost my job and moved north. Then I got back to it and intended to add Part 23, but other things and a remarkably bad winter last year intervened. Then I started with the videography and got involved in the film I’m working on. _Tempus fugit._ If we’re not filming today I might watch it after the second disc of _Lost_ and finally get round to posting a thread. Or someone else can make **The James Bond Film Festival. Part 23: Never Say Never**. If no one does, I’ll do it eventually (before the next film comes out). ---
**Author:** ![Cyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e4f/32.png) [@Cyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyn)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/27 "2005-11-27T17:40:31Z")
The Ian Fleming Books, the John Gardener books and the various films are all different entertainment for me. I’ll re-read the Flemings, not the Gardeners and see the films to see what Hollywood special effects can make of Bond’s world. I have long thought that Bond in the movies wasn’t the ruthless, arrogant, cold 007 that I would’ve been Moneypenny for, but I’m a girl who likes to see things explode, so there’s that. I believe I may be done with James Bond movies----a blond Bond? Young doesn’t bother me, soft would. I’m awaiting the previews before I decide to skip the newest Bond film, but skip it I will unless I see dark hair curling over a high forehead and a cruel mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/28 "2005-11-27T17:45:40Z")
> [@Cyn](#): > > I believe I may be done with James Bond movies----a blond Bond? _My hair is blond. Dyed blond._ – The Toy Dolls ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/29 "2005-11-27T18:07:07Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > It’s not canon. Neither were the two versions of _Casino Royale_, which is why they’re last on the list. It’s also a bloody awful movie. If you’re going to count it on the list, you might as well do _Mad Missions 5_. A few years ago there was the rumor that Sony Pictures was going to start their own Bond franchise (based upon the McClory rights to the Thunderball story) and were considering Ralph Fiennes for the 007 roll. Thankfully, that died in gestation, most likely due to legal issues. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/30 "2005-11-28T02:31:13Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > IMO LTK saved the franchise. They had to update to the 90’s and could easily have killed the series by doing so (_same Challange facing Casino Royale and Craig_). So they introduced Brosnan, made M into Judi D, Bond uses condoms, he was an orphan that may/may not have been used by the state … but still it was true enough left of the past to pass muster to folks like most of us who obviously care enough to post. Point of accuracy: LTK was _Dalton_’s second film. Brosnan, Densch & co. come in with _Goldeneye_. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/31 "2005-11-28T02:58:45Z")
:smack: JRDelirious I am a dope. Substitute Goldeneye for everytime I wrote License to Kill and that is what I tried to say. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/32 "2005-11-28T03:08:55Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Bond? > > Fffft! > > Bond was a creature of the Cold War, and he has no place in the post-Soviet world. I don’t know. I thought GoldenEye was one of the best bond films(at least, it’s a lot better then anything in the last 15 years, it seems). But then again, that was rather cold-war-ish anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/33 "2005-11-28T06:23:40Z")
I read a suggestion here years ago that I thought was brilliant, I believe it was Joey Hemlock who made it. He proposed that “James Bond” is the identity given to Britain’s top undercover agent. In a stroke such a revelation would easily explain why all of the different Bonds didn’t look the same, AND would open up all kinds of new possibilities that in the hands of talented writers could revolutionize the franchise. A black Bond. A _female_ Bond…it would all be possible. The traditionalists would hate it, of course, but imagine a suave, female Bond who kicks ass like Laura Croft, cracks wise like Ellen DeGeneres and hops into bed with a hot boy toy (or with another girl!) at the end of the movie. That’s a movie I’d like to see. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_Norder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@Dan\_Norder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_Norder)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/34 "2005-11-28T08:21:23Z")
_Casino Royale_, eh? And when that’s released in the US will that be _Casino Quarter Pounder with Cheese_? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/35 "2005-11-28T09:35:30Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I read a suggestion here years ago that I thought was brilliant, I believe it was Joey Hemlock who made it. He proposed that “James Bond” is the identity given to Britain’s top undercover agent. Actually, you’ll note that M is always threatening to replace Bond with 008. “I’ll send double-oh-eight. He follows orders, not instincts.” Clearly, the masterful 008 is Britian’s top agent in Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Bond is a weak second who sometimes gets lucky, but mostly blunders around, carousing, boozing, gambling, and otherwise serving as a distraction from the real work done by the agents of MI-6. I think we should see some of the adventures of the other Double-Oh agents. I bet they don’t get trapped in certain death at the ninety minute mark, only to escape out of the vain idiocy of the archvillian. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/36 "2005-11-28T16:07:17Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > I think we should see some of the adventures of the other Double-Oh agents. I bet they don’t get trapped in certain death at the ninety minute mark, only to escape out of the vain idiocy of the archvillian. > > Stranger Well, we did see 006 in Goldeneye, but He turned to be the bad guy ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/37 "2005-11-28T18:10:27Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Well, we did see 006 in Goldeneye[/spoiler] Also 009 in the opening of _Octopussy_, and 002 & 004 in _The Living Daylights_, ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/38 "2005-11-28T18:21:01Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Also 009 in the opening of _Octopussy_, and 002 & 004 in _The Living Daylights_, And the whole Double-Oh section (though mostly from the rear) in _Thunderball_. (Moneypenny: “In the conference room. Something pretty big. Every double-o man in Europe has been rushed in. And the home secretary too!” Bond: “His wife probably lost her dog.”) Somebody has to be out there doing the real work while Bond is busy guzzling vodka martinis and banging supermodels. I mean, the mighty British Empire has fallen, but it hasn’t fallen that far. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/39 "2005-11-28T18:26:14Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Well, we did see 006 in Goldeneye, but He turned to be the bad guy Sean Bean should have been the first blonde 007. I thought his portrayal of 006 was closer to Fleming’s 007 (ie, dark and cruel) than Connery, Lasenby, Moore, or Brosnan. Sorry, I didn’t see either of Dalton’s films. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850/40 "2005-11-29T16:33:56Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I read a suggestion here years ago that I thought was brilliant, I believe it was Joey Hemlock who made it. He proposed that “James Bond” is the identity given to Britain’s top undercover agent. In a stroke such a revelation would easily explain why all of the different Bonds didn’t look the same, AND would open up all kinds of new possibilities that in the hands of talented writers could revolutionize the franchise. A black Bond. A _female_ Bond…it would all be possible. The traditionalists would hate it, of course, but imagine a suave, female Bond who kicks ass like Laura Croft, cracks wise like Ellen DeGeneres and hops into bed with a hot boy toy (or with another girl!) at the end of the movie. That’s a movie I’d like to see. So…[Jane Bond](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/102-4391367-2476122?url=index%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Jane+Bond&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go) , in other words? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-done-with-james-bond/332850.md?page=1)