# Are We Fallen Angels? again **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 1, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004 "2011-03-01T01:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/1 "2011-03-01T01:51:03Z")
Sorry to offend. Maybe I was just too lazy to describe the whole ordeal after just reading it. But I do find it an interesting premise and haven’t really heard many people talk about it. The premise is that humans are really the fallen angels in the Bible. Kind of an answer to the “Where did we come from?” question. Short version: God makes Lucifer (Head Angel) and all the other angels. Lucifer gets cocky and tries to mutiny. He rallies some of the angels to fight with him against God and overtake heaven. He loses. So he and his followers are cast out of heaven, but since they’re eternal, they have to be “imprisoned” somewhere. Is it here, on Earth? Genesis could be interpreted that way. First he is cast out. And now all the angels that followed him are born human and given the opportunity to either follow God or Lucifer. Many have chosen one or the other… so is it a valid theory? It seems outlandish, but is it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/2 "2011-03-01T01:53:20Z")
Taken as a metaphor, it can probably say whatever you want it to say. Taken literally, yes, it is extremely outlandish. [Moderating] Thank you for taking more time to explain your point of view in this thread. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/3 "2011-03-01T01:54:33Z")
Yes it is. Humans are the product of natural processes, not supernatural silliness. There is no god, devil, angels or pixies. ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/4 "2011-03-01T01:58:06Z")
Marley23, I agree that metaphorically it could mean anything, as could any statement, but in Christian circles, would this be considered heresy or possibly true? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/5 "2011-03-01T02:01:23Z")
Maybe DtC will be along to answer this more fully, but I don’t believe that it’s supported in the Bible that humans are fallen angels. We were created separately and are separate beings. Also, the Devil wasn’t banished to Earth, he was banished to Hell…he merely has influence on the Earth (if humans allow it). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/6 "2011-03-01T02:02:14Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Short version: God makes Lucifer (Head Angel) and all the other angels. > > Lucifer gets cocky and tries to mutiny. He rallies some of the angels to fight with him against God and overtake heaven. > > He loses. So he and his followers are cast out of heaven, but since they’re eternal, they have to be “imprisoned” somewhere. Where did you get this story? I can’t seem to find it in the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/7 "2011-03-01T02:05:05Z")
(Is it just me, or is the board running really slowly tonight??) [QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Yes it is. Humans are the product of natural processes, not supernatural silliness. There is no god, devil, angels or pixies. [/QUOTE] Yes, but it’s not really a helpful answer. It’s like saying that there is no reason to discuss some work of fiction because, you know, it’s all made up anyway, so what’s the point? The OP is asking a question within the framework of Christian mythos, so answering that to the effect that it’s all hogwash really doesn’t answer the question, which actually CAN be answered within that framework. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/8 "2011-03-01T02:05:22Z")
Did you miss\* Babylon 5\*? The creatures you call angels are actually Vorlons, an advanced alien species manipulating the lesser life forms to use as pawns in their age old struggle with the Shadows. The ultimate conflict is not good vs evil, instead it is law versus chaos. Remember, there is no God but Junkyard Dog, and Bill Watts is his booker. Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/9 "2011-03-01T02:11:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did you get this story? I can’t seem to find it in the Bible. I found the premise in an unmentionable blog… it has gotten me thinking tho. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/10 "2011-03-01T02:12:38Z")
To the OP: Are you talking about what actually happened in antiquity (human history), or the interpretation of a fictional religious work (the Bible)? (And yes, Xtisme, the Boards are slow tonight for me, too.) ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/11 "2011-03-01T02:15:07Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > To the OP: Are you talking about what actually happened in antiquity (human history), or the interpretation of a fictional religious work (the Bible)? > > (And yes, Xtisme, the Boards are slow tonight for me, too.) I am looking at this from the perspective that the aforementioned book, the Bible, is factual and that the premise can be found “between the lines.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/12 "2011-03-01T02:20:34Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Marley23, I agree that metaphorically it could mean anything, as could any statement, but in Christian circles, would this be considered heresy or possibly true? I’ll leave that to a Christian or someone who knows more about the Bible than I do. > [@Brian\_o](#): > > I am looking at this from the perspective that the aforementioned book, the Bible, is factual and that the premise can be found “between the lines.” Why would the premise be hidden this way? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/13 "2011-03-01T02:24:22Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > I am looking at this from the perspective that the aforementioned book, the Bible, is factual and that the premise can be found “between the lines.” Since very few things in the Bible have been shown to be factual, many others are open to interpretation, many are just plain disgusting and some are gosh darn wrong, perhaps your premise is a giant leap of faith. If your premise is inaccurate, your conclusions will be even more off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/14 "2011-03-01T02:26:54Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Marley23, I agree that metaphorically it could mean anything, as could any statement, but in Christian circles, would this be considered heresy or possibly true? It would be heresy, yes. It’s not only non-Biblical, but humans are supposed to be special creations of God, separate from angels. Bear in mind that (in the Bible) humans were also created without sin and did not “fall” until they ate the forbidden fruit and gained knowledge of good and evil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/15 "2011-03-01T02:32:33Z")
Actually it was not Lucifer, it was Xenu, but the rest of the OP is pretty much on target. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/16 "2011-03-01T02:34:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Did you miss\* Babylon 5\*? The creatures you call angels are actually Vorlons. How much of a cut of the royalties did they give to Styx? ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/17 "2011-03-01T02:43:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ll leave that to a Christian or someone who knows more about the Bible than I do. > Why would the premise be hidden this way? Why did Jesus teach in parables? ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@Brian\_o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_o)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/18 "2011-03-01T02:46:34Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Since very few things in the Bible have been shown to be factual, many others are open to interpretation, many are just plain disgusting and some are gosh darn wrong, perhaps your premise is a giant leap of faith. If your premise is inaccurate, your conclusions will be even more off the mark. Since your presupposition is that the Bible is false, it follows that you wouldn’t actually have anything to offer in this thread. The question is from a Christian point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Assi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@Assi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Assi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/19 "2011-03-01T02:48:48Z")
We are not fallen Angels, we are Angels. Only Angels could create works of beauty like the Pyramids of Giza, the Great Wall of China, Two girls one cup, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, Big Booty Mamas #17, The Colosseum, or The Playboy Mansion. Yes, my friends…God shines upon us and our diahrrea and throw up covered wings. Ally Achinback, Slalom, and Jeff Ament. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004/20 "2011-03-01T02:55:01Z")
> [@Brian\_o](#): > > Why did Jesus teach in parables? To illustrate his point, which would be the opposite of what this story does. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-fallen-angels-again/573004.md?page=2)