# Are we going to see Vice President Condi Rice . . . real soon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822 "2005-10-18T23:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/1 "2005-10-18T23:09:55Z")
Like by the end of next week? [White House Watch: Cheney resignation rumors fly](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/051018/18whwatch.htm) It’s a question of the Plamegate indictments, which should be happening soon, if they are at all. Would Dick Cheney In the hopes of avoiding a partisan snipefest, let’s limit the debate to whether or not Cheney will resign, and if he does will Rice be the best choice for Dubya as VP, and what are the political ramifications of VP Rice (a pro-choice architect of the increasingly unpopular Iraq war), especially in light of the 2008 presidential election. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/2 "2005-10-18T23:12:30Z")
And you can ignore that sentence “Would Dick Cheney”, because it’s not really a sentence, more of an unfinished fragment that I forgot to erase before I posted, never mind . . . ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/3 "2005-10-18T23:16:03Z")
Wow: That is a heck of a question. I would be shocked if Cheney resigned but I would like to see it. Does Bush have the right to choose. I am thinking in terms of the Agnew resignation and Ford being bumped up. I thought there was a line of command and the Sec of State was 5th after Senate Majority leader and Speaker of the House. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/4 "2005-10-18T23:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **Airblairxxx** …Posts: 666 It’s a _rumor_, nothing more. Just like the rumor that [There are 22 files that Fitzgerald is looking at for potential indictment](http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/10/a_new_tidbit_on.html). Wait a few days, and we may have some _facts_ to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/5 "2005-10-18T23:19:07Z")
Wellnow, I’ve been hearing this idea at least since the election last year. Before, it’s always been in the context of Cheney’s health–and I find that a much more likely scenario than his resigning due to the Plame thing. I can’t see any way at all he would step down over this, not least because it would cripple the administration. Now, if this settles down, or if he needs another heart operation, I could see his choosing to step aside. He’s said unequivocally he will not run for President in 2008. If the party decides the incumbent VP Rice would have a better shot at winning in '08 than, say, Jeb Bush, they might very well discuss the matter with the President. Certainly if Cheney were to resign, Condy seems to be the frontrunner for the position. ISTM it really does boil down to what’s best for the party. It’s always nice to have a Veep running for President, and the VP is almost always the nominee . . . but a black woman Veep? Honestly, they might well decide to encourage Dick to stick it out another three years and see how the primaries shake out. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/6 "2005-10-18T23:21:48Z")
Cheney, at least, would have a plausible medical excuse to resign, in light of his well-known health problems. If Rice were chosen to succeed him, I do not think that decision would be based on hopes for the 2008 elections – Rice, even as a sitting VP, would not be a viable Republican candidate then, because she (1) has never held an elected office; (2) is pro-choice; (3) is . . . you know. There’s still a **lot** of residual racism in the GOP’s most important modern base, Southern white conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/7 "2005-10-18T23:23:29Z")
I am wrong, the 25th ammendment covers this in section 2 > [@](#): > > Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/8 "2005-10-18T23:23:33Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Wow: That is a heck of a question. > I would be shocked if Cheney resigned but I would like to see it. > Does Bush have the right to choose. I am thinking in terms of the Agnew resignation and Ford being bumped up. I thought there was a line of command and the Sec of State was 5th after Senate Majority leader and Speaker of the House. You’re thinking of line of succession for the president. If the VP office is vacant, the president gets to choose, but his choice has to be ratified by the Senate and the House, per the 25th amendment: > [@](#): > > Section 2 > > Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/9 "2005-10-18T23:24:43Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > It’s a _rumor_, nothing more. > Just like the rumor that [There are 22 files that Fitzgerald is looking at for potential indictment](http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2005/10/a_new_tidbit_on.html). > Wait a few days, and we may have some _facts_ to discuss. Yes, it is a rumor. One that US News saw fit to report on. Doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true, of course. And that should be obvious. But it does open up several issues to debate, and this is Great Debates, after all. I’d add more but the boss is lurking. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/10 "2005-10-18T23:25:43Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I am thinking in terms of the Agnew resignation and Ford being bumped up. I thought there was a line of command and the Sec of State was 5th after Senate Majority leader and Speaker of the House. Only in the event of incapacitation. Per the Presidential Succession Act (1947), If the President dies or is otherwise unable to perform, the Vice President takes over, then the Speaker of the House, then the President Pro Tem of the Senate, then it goes into the Cabinet. However, that’s only if they die–it’s a way to ensure that in a catastrophic emergency there is always a set and clear chain of command. Al Haig notwithstanding. However, the 25th Amendment to the Constitution allows for vacancies in the office of the VP: > [@](#): > > Section 2: Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/11 "2005-10-18T23:27:09Z")
#@%#@!$ crappy connection. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/12 "2005-10-18T23:49:53Z")
Pure speculation on my part, but: I think Rove turned on Cheney before the Grand Jury. Cheney will be indicted as early as tomorrow for revealing an undercover operative, conspiracy, and obstruction of justice. Cheney resigns, citing health reasons but really to defend himself in court. I’m not at all convinced that Condi would be named- Bush’s political capital has long since been mortgaged and now is politically bankrupt. In an upset, look for Mitt Romney to become the new veep. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/13 "2005-10-19T00:00:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Pure speculation on my part, but: > > I think Rove turned on Cheney before the Grand Jury. Cheney will be indicted as early as tomorrow for revealing an undercover operative, conspiracy, and obstruction of justice. 😕 That’s a plausible course of events, but what would it have to do with Rove? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/14 "2005-10-19T00:06:07Z")
Or to mean Rove would testify **against** Cheney (or has already done so)? Wouldn’t that be psychologically impossible for him? He’s been a political operative his whole adult life; that would kill his career deader than tinned sardine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/15 "2005-10-19T00:16:04Z")
> [@Airblairxxx](#): > > Yes, it is a rumor. One that US News saw fit to report on. John Kerry intern yada yada. 😉 > [@Washington Post](#): > > In grand jury sessions, including with New York Times reporter Judith Miller, Fitzgerald has pressed witnesses on what Cheney may have known about the effort to push back against ex-diplomat and Iraq war critic Joseph C. Wilson IV, including the leak of his wife’s position at the CIA, Miller and others said. But Fitzgerald has focused more on the role of Cheney’s top aides, including Chief of Staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, lawyers involved in the case said. We’ll see, but I’d be surprised if Cheney himself is indicted. At the moment, I still think the charges will be related to the coverup, not the ‘outing’ itself, as that charge is very difficult to prove. And even with that said, would he step down because he’s been indicted, or stay and fight it? Tom DeLay hasn’t quit. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/16 "2005-10-19T00:20:33Z")
Who does the GOP want on the 2008 ticket? That’s who will be picked to replace Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/17 "2005-10-19T00:26:00Z")
Maybe this rumor is being intentionally spread by the Bush Administration. For the past week or so, people have been going, “Oh my gosh! Karl Rove is going to be indicted! This is huge, it’s going to shake the Bushies to the core, etc…” By spreading rumors that the indictment goes all the way up to Cheney, they raise the stakes. Then, when the Rove indictment finally comes down the line, it looks rather trivial by comparison. “Whew, it’s only Rove getting hit, not Cheney. Nothing important, nothing to see here, let’s move on to the next scandal.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/18 "2005-10-19T00:28:57Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > By spreading rumors that the indictment goes all the way up to Cheney, they raise the stakes. Then, when the Rove indictment finally comes down the line, it looks rather trivial by comparison. “Whew, it’s only Rove getting hit, not Cheney. Nothing important, nothing to see here, let’s move on to the next scandal.” Nobody’s going to believe that Karl Rove is unimportant to these guys! I’ve heard the phrase “Vice President’s office” before, but this thread is the first time I’ve heard anyone suggest an indictment for Cheney. If the indictment is coming out tomorrow, as it might, it’s probably too late to start a rumor for this purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/19 "2005-10-19T00:35:41Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Who does the GOP want on the 2008 ticket? That’s who will be picked to replace Cheney. Giuliani? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/20 "2005-10-19T00:39:04Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > Maybe this rumor is being intentionally spread by the Bush Administration. Possibly, but Cheney sightings have been pretty scarce since he had his phlebitis? surgery. No major drop-off like with [Rove sightings](http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20051018142309990005), and he does have that “Dick cave” to hide out in under the naval observatory, still the upper echelons of the administration are acting very much like they know something bad is coming down. Of course if they do actually _know_, then Bush should by now have kept his promise, and fired the lot of them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=2)