# Are we going to see Vice President Condi Rice . . . real soon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822 "2005-10-18T23:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/61 "2005-10-19T07:18:05Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > How about never married? Rice is in her 50s and has never been married and isn’t involved with men. There are all ready rumours of lesbianism (which I find ridiculous). If she’s nominated for higher office they’ll get alot worse. We’ve only had one never-married President (James Buchanan) and the same rumours were raised about him. Thay accused him of _Lesbianism_…? ---
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/62 "2005-10-19T07:19:08Z")
Sheesh… I quit! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/63 "2005-10-19T10:07:56Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **Bob** , and anyone else sharing your views about the near-certainty of an indictment against Cheney . . . what on earth are you smoking? 'Cos it clearly beats the _fuck_ out of my homegrown. Why would Rove make four trips to the Grand Jury? If they were after him he wouldn’t be so cooperative. They’re after someone else, someone bigger. It just has to be Cheney. You don’t use trout for bait unless you’re trying to catch something bigger than a trout. As far as Bush being indicted, I now side with those that say no way. [The Department of Justice](http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm) has a lengthy document that dispels that notion. But he could get the Nixonian mantle of unindicted co-conspirator. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/64 "2005-10-19T11:38:13Z")
To anyone thinking a sitting vice-president can’t be indicted, see [here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html): > [@](#): > > All these news stories suggesting that Fitzgerald is drawing a bead on Cheney’s office raise an interesting – if almost entirely academic – question: Can a vice president be indicted? …the answer would appear to be: Yes. Technically and legally, a sitting vice president can be indicted. In fact, there’s a precedent. > > Not long after he killed Alexander Hamilton in their famous 1804 duel, Vice President Aaron Burr was indicted for murder in both New York and New Jersey. No constitutional crisis ensued. > > And as this [2000](http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/sitting_president.htm) Department of Justice memo lays out, the department researched the issue thoroughly in 1973. …none other than then-solicitor general Robert Bork **(!)** concluded that, while “the indictment or criminal prosecution of a sitting President would impermissibly undermine the capacity of the executive branch to perform its constitutionally assigned functions,” the vice president was fair game. > > The “brief from the solicitor general argued that, while the president was immune from indictment, the vice president was not, since his conviction would not disrupt the workings of the executive branch.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/65 "2005-10-19T11:51:41Z")
Vice president [Spiro T. Agnew:](http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/generic/VP_Spiro_Agnew.htm) > [@](#): > > “ **I Will Not Resign If Indicted!** ” > Agnew’s attorneys had entered into plea bargaining with the federal prosecutors. In return for pleading nolo contendere, or no contest, to the tax charge and paying $160,000 in back taxes (with the help of a loan from Frank Sinatra), he would receive a suspended sentence and a $10,000 fine. On October 10, 1973, while Spiro T. Agnew appeared in federal court in Baltimore, his letter of resignation was delivered to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/66 "2005-10-19T13:34:37Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Why would Rove make four trips to the Grand Jury? If they were after him he wouldn’t be so cooperative. They’re after someone else, someone bigger. It just has to be Cheney. You don’t use trout for bait unless you’re trying to catch something bigger than a trout. Want to up the bet, then, since “it just has to be Cheney”? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/67 "2005-10-19T13:36:26Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Well, you went 10000:1 against Rove being indicted for treason (against my double-sawbuck). > > I’d say the odds are still high in this case, but less astronomical. 100:1 ? Nah, that’s too high. I’ll go 5:1. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/68 "2005-10-19T14:08:18Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Want to up the bet, then, since “it just has to be Cheney”? 🙂 You’re talking to a guy that plays the 50 cent roulette chips- I think my wager is at my threshold of big time gambling. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/69 "2005-10-19T14:38:54Z")
A beer, then? Straight up, one good beer, draft, at the tavern or restaurant of your choice. I’m in Shy and Madison a couple times a year–I’ll swing up and collect next time I’m in the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/70 "2005-10-19T14:56:28Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Nah, that’s too high. I’ll go 5:1. Hmm, that’s more likely than I’d consider at this point. Libby, sure – 2:1 or better. Cheney seems like a much much longer shot than 5:1. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/71 "2005-10-19T15:16:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > With all the anger he’s voiced about going along with the Iraq thing? No way. Then it will have to be… Harriet. Screw the Supreme Court appointment. She’ll be in seventh heaven working for the most brilliant man she’s ever met. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/72 "2005-10-19T18:25:41Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If she’s nominated for higher office they’ll get alot worse. We’ve only had one never-married President (James Buchanan) and the same rumours were raised about him. They’d been circulating for a long time, actually. The man he allegedly had a relationship with (Senator-and-really-briefly-VP William Rufus King) was dead by the time Buchanan became President. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/73 "2005-10-19T18:28:04Z")
I think this is going to make Krakatoa look like a popgun. [From Chris Matthews:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9601200/#051019a) > [@](#): > > If there are indictments, they’re going to be probably in the vice president’s office, they’re probably going to come next week and they are going to blow this White House apart. > \ > That’s going to be big news, because now George W. Bush will be running this country completely on his own the next couple of months. It’s going to be very interesting. I like Chris Matthews, he’s generally above board and fair. You can sense that he thinks this is the real deal. This is going to be huge. This will bring down the administration and the Republican Party. Patrick Fitzgerald is going to deserve his face on our currency when this is over. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/74 "2005-10-19T18:39:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is going to be huge. This will bring down the administration and the Republican Party. Oh, please. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/75 "2005-10-19T18:43:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This will bring down the administration and the Republican Party. The administration? Possible though I have doubts. The Republican Party?? :dubious: Just out of curiosity, lets say the it DID somehow bring down the whole Republican Party (frankly I still have never seen whats so exciting about this issue, but what the hell…maybe I’m missing something profound here). What do you think would replace the Republican Party if it was completely brought down? Or do you think (fantasize? 😉 ) that we’d become a one party state then with only the Democrats left? Just curious. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/76 "2005-10-19T18:46:37Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Oh, please. Just wait and see. Bush is not only going to be a lame duck, he will be entirely de-feathered. Cheney is toast and I bet that he takes Bush down with him. You can see the rift between Bush and Cheney in that Bush had an aided tell him about the choice of Meiers. I don’t think either trusts the other, nor should he. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/77 "2005-10-19T18:54:39Z")
Also, FWIW… According to A Tom DeFrank piece in the Daily News, Rove told Bush two years ago that he outed Plame, and Bush has been pissed at him ever since. Read about it at [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/78 "2005-10-19T19:01:24Z")
Yes, it looks odds-on for Cheney to have to choose either resignation or impeachment, along with Libby and maybe a few others. But the entire party? Yeah, Bob, come on. It’s followers can always use the few-bad-apples approach to reasoning and keep voting for their principles. This may not even be a good thing, not altogether. Bush is not capable of running the administration even minimally without Cheney and the help of several others, and he’s certainly not capable of exerting true leadership. If the power grab among the remaining unindicted staffers gets protracted and bloody enough, there’s a possibility of worse damage to the coountry than simply waiting out the next 3 years. It’d be worth finding out, though. The real nucular bomb here would be if Fitzgerald finds a way to file actual criminal charges over the Administration’s inventions of the case for invading Iraq, not just the spiteful outing of Plame. Rice was in \*that \* up to the gap in her teeth as well, and would not be a politically-acceptable choice to replace Cheney as VP. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/79 "2005-10-19T19:07:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, it looks odds-on for Cheney to have to choose either resignation or impeachment, along with Libby and maybe a few others. But the entire party? Yeah, Bob, come on. It’s followers can always use the few-bad-apples approach to reasoning and keep voting for their principles. I don’t know. Between Frist and Delay and Cheney, the GOP has some serious image problems. Even the tightest of the righties is going to flinch about pulling that Republican lever now. The party won’t be destroyed, but if it was 2006 I would be surprised if it retained either House. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/80 "2005-10-19T19:08:38Z")
> [@E = mc²](#): > > Rove told Bush two years ago that he outed Plame, and Bush has been pissed at him ever since. More to the point, if true, Bush has being lying to all us Americans ever since. **xt** , if this somehow splits the religious right from the regular old conservatives, the GOP core will be knocked down to 15-20% of voters. That’s not where a major party wants to find itself. I doubt the religious wing would take charges of bearing false witness that seriously, and I think the vanilla conservatives understand why Reagan made his deal with the devil, but it _might_ happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=5)