# Are we going to see Vice President Condi Rice . . . real soon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822 "2005-10-18T23:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/121 "2005-10-20T03:11:40Z")
The former top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell has come out swinging [according to the Financial Times](http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html). > [@](#): > > In a scathing attack on the record of President George W. Bush, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Mr Powell until last January, said: “What I saw was a cabal between the vice-president of the United States, Richard Cheney, and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, on critical issues that made decisions that the bureaucracy did not know were being made. > > “Now it is paying the consequences of making those decisions in secret, but far more telling to me is America is paying the consequences.” > > – snip – > > Condoleezza Rice, the former national security adviser and now secretary of state, was “part of the problem”. Instead of ensuring that Mr Bush received the best possible advice, “she would side with the president to build her intimacy with the president”. > > – snip – > > Mr Wilkerson said former president George H.W. Bush “one of the finest presidents we have ever had” understood how to make foreign policy work. In contrast, he said, his son was “not versed in international relations and not too much interested in them either”. The [full transcript](http://news.ft.com/cms/s/c925a686-40f4-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html) is available. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/122 "2005-10-20T06:09:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Slightly evades the point. > > Wilson reported. To whom, directly? It hardly matters, unless you wish to posit that some underling of Cheney took it upon himself to avoid advising the VP. Whomsoever Wilson reported to, reported to someone else, who reported to someone else, in the traditional fashion. Which is to say, upwards. Huh? I can’t make hide nor hair out of that post… ---
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/123 "2005-10-20T06:52:58Z")
Sure is a whole lotta **giddy** goin’ on out der. Reminds me of a girl named Monica and gentler times… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/124 "2005-10-20T08:10:18Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Huh? I can’t make hide nor hair out of that post… He is saying that Wilson reported to his boss. As a result, the boss then reported to his supervisior, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/125 "2005-10-20T08:22:52Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Giuliani? Nothing useful to add to the thread; I just wanted to point out that I didn’t post the above, nor do I know who did. I don’t particularly care that it was posted – if I’m going to have an unauthorized sock, at least (s)he has the common courtesy to post something mundane – but I did want to let anyone who might be interested (yeah, every single none of you) that this wasn’t actually me. Also, the mods are already aware, so no need to report it. ---
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/126 "2005-10-20T15:43:42Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Nothing useful to add to the thread; I just wanted to point out that I didn’t post the above, nor do I know who did. I don’t particularly care that it was posted – if I’m going to have an unauthorized sock, at least (s)he has the common courtesy to post something mundane – but I did want to let anyone who might be interested (yeah, every single none of you) that this wasn’t actually me. > > Also, the mods are already aware, so no need to report it. Just a guess, Roland, but maybe you checked in recently from someone else’s computer and forgot to log out? That happened to me once on another board. The next time my friend visited the board, his cookies had him logged in as me and he didn’t even notice until it was too late and the dastardly deed was done. The situation repaired itself when he logged out and the cookies got wiped. Oh, and you might thank heaven for the mundane… it might have been Jeb instead of Rudy. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/127 "2005-10-20T16:23:37Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The former top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell has come out swinging [according to the Financial Times](http://news.ft.com/cms/s/afdb7b0c-40f3-11da-b3f9-00000e2511c8.html). You beat me to the punch posting that one. [Here’s another:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9756244/site/newsweek/) > [@](#): > > For Powell and his staff, the searing experience of the run-up to war and its chaotic aftermath was not about conflict in Baghdad, but conflict in Washington. It was intense, personal and emotional. Their enemy: the vice president’s office and the Pentagon. It was clear at the time how dismal relations were between the State and Defense departments. After all, the Pentagon trashed State’s planning for the postwar period and they openly feuded in their assessments of whether to trust Iraqi exiles or not. One gets the feeling that the dam is about to break in spectacular fashion. I honestly don’t see how Rumsfeld and Cheney survive this. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/128 "2005-10-20T16:35:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You beat me to the punch posting that one. [Here’s another:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9756244/site/newsweek/) > > One gets the feeling that the dam is about to break in spectacular fashion. I honestly don’t see how Rumsfeld and Cheney survive this. You are really getting my hopes up. It would be like a dream. Rumsfeld and Cheney go down. Tom DeLay follows them with his own private mess. Then maybe the right wingers will lose control of the congress and even the republican party. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/129 "2005-10-20T16:38:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I honestly don’t see how Rumsfeld and Cheney survive this. Wanna bet? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/130 "2005-10-20T16:53:29Z")
Your gambling problem is really getting out of hand, **John Mace**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/131 "2005-10-20T17:03:50Z")
> [@vibrotronica](#): > > Your gambling problem is really getting out of hand, **John Mace**. I couldn’t resist that one. I think too many people in this thread are making predictions based on what they want to happen vs what actually is likely to happen. This whole thing is largely much ado about nothing. No one is going to be prosecuted for “outing” a covert operative. If that were the charge, then this would indeed be a big deal. It’s all going to come down to conflicting testimony and a he said she said thing that most people in the US just won’t have much interst in. I predict that Libby will be indicted, and he’ll resign. Rove may or may not be indicted, but life will go on for the Republicans. The real problem that party has is the war in Iraq. All the other stuff will come and go, but soldiers are being killed in Iraq pretty much every day. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/132 "2005-10-20T17:15:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The real problem that party has is the war in Iraq. All the other stuff will come and go, but soldiers are being killed in Iraq pretty much every day. I agree, but the point of Democratic glee, if I read it right, is this dragging the focus back to what got us into the war in the first place. Can Joe Public do the mental leap - “Silence Wilson = Mire us in War”? Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/133 "2005-10-20T17:21:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > This whole thing is largely much ado about nothing. No one is going to be prosecuted for “outing” a covert operative. There’s a good chance someone may be indicted for perjury, as far as I can tell. Sound familar? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/134 "2005-10-20T17:24:39Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > I agree, but the point of Democratic glee, if I read it right, is this dragging the focus back to what got us into the war in the first place. > > Can Joe Public do the mental leap - “Silence Wilson = Mire us in War”? Maybe. No, because the activity under investigation came months after the war already started, so the proposition doesn’t really make sense. We’re talking about stuff that happened in the summer of '03, not in the lead-up to the war. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/135 "2005-10-20T17:24:41Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > .Then maybe the right wingers will lose control of the congress and even the republican party. Who exactly do you mean by “right-wingers”? There’s more than one kind. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/136 "2005-10-20T17:25:53Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > There’s a good chance someone may be indicted for perjury, as far as I can tell. Sound familar? Is there a blue dress involved? Maybe Libby gave Rove a blow job and lied about it afterwards. Now, that would get the public intersted! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/137 "2005-10-20T17:37:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Who exactly do you mean by “right-wingers”? There’s more than one kind. I mean the religious right. Excuse me for the vague term. You know the Rightiest wing of the Right Wing. 😉 I also mean the ones who are hellbent on giving more tax breaks to the rich while reducing spending on almost everything else. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/138 "2005-10-20T18:17:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No, because the activity under investigation came months after the war already started, so the proposition doesn’t really make sense. The activity in question was undertaken to silence a critic of the administration who said that the case for war was based on information that can chairtably be called “mistaken” and uncharitably be called “lies.” And the thing is, he was right. There was was no uranium bought from Niger. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. And yet, our soldiers are their and they’re getting killed and killing, and we’re spending money on the war like it’s going out of style. Money we don’t have. Money we’re borrowing from the Chinese. So, how did the administration react to its critic? Did they offer more, better evidence for the rightness and justification of the war? No, they attacked his family. And they exposed the identity of a spy in the process, which is a crime. Right wingers love to compare Iraq to World War II. Well, what would have happened if someone in Roosevelt’s office had exposed the identity of an OSS or Army intellegence operative during World War II? And there’s yet another set of uncomfortable questions that this investigation leads to. The documents that Wilson was sent to Niger to investigate turned out to be forgeries. Who forged them, and why? You’re right, **John** , that some people are predicting more what they want to see than what will actually happen. I don’t know what will happen, and anyone who claims to know is selling something. But this is more than just[background noise](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051020/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/139 "2005-10-20T18:18:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think this is going to make Krakatoa look like a popgun. > > This is going to be huge. This will bring down the administration and the Republican Party. Patrick Fitzgerald is going to deserve his face on our currency when this is over. I thought all the nation was going to be talking about this week was [Bush’s drinking problem.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6625225&postcount=48) And a year ago, it was going to be a landslide for Kerry, and so on. I know hope springs eternal and all that, but don’t you think this is getting a little silly? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/140 "2005-10-20T18:21:34Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I mean the religious right. Excuse me for the vague term. You know the Rightiest wing of the Right Wing. 😉 > I also mean the ones who are hellbent on giving more tax breaks to the rich while reducing spending on almost everything else. Well, there you go. That’s two different factions. I can imagine the first “losing control” of the party – but not the second. The second faction **is** the Republican Party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=8)