# Are we going to see Vice President Condi Rice . . . real soon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 18, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822 "2005-10-18T23:09:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/161 "2005-10-21T03:12:15Z")
You mean if it turns out Fitz hasn’t the _slightest_ idea what he’s about? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/162 "2005-10-21T03:21:50Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > That’s what I’d like to get clarification on. If the interview was not under oath, is the testimony still bindable in some way. Can POTUS get subpoenaed to testify as to why there might be a discrepancy? It would be interesting to see what the sources of both stories are and how they might converge. Clinton was subpoenaed, so there is precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/163 "2005-10-21T04:17:57Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > He didn’t offer any opinions. The quoted text was from the link. > > But thanks, anyway. Permit me to revise: \*Well, thanks for the link to Larry Johnson’s opinion. Unfortunately, he doesn’t offer the proof I was asking for that Plame was “covert” at the time her name was released by whomever, and the stridency of his opinions further causes me to question his objectivity. But thanks, anyway.\* ---
**Author:** ![Dishfunctional](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/35a633/32.png) [@Dishfunctional](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dishfunctional)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/164 "2005-10-21T04:58:24Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mean if it turns out Fitz hasn’t the _slightest_ idea what he’s about? Oh yeah… that. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/165 "2005-10-21T09:35:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You mean if it turns out Fitz hasn’t the _slightest_ idea what he’s about? Well, there is that teeny tiny possibility that Fitzgerald forgot to read Victoria’s Secret Law. Happily, however, the odds are in favor of this clueless Administration having screwed up big time. Again. And I thought Watergate was enormously saisfying. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/166 "2005-10-21T09:55:55Z")
Apparently, Karl and Scooter have gotten their Target letters from Patrick. [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/167 "2005-10-21T16:02:14Z")
> [@E = mc²](#): > > Well, there is that teeny tiny possibility that Fitzgerald forgot to read Victoria’s Secret Law. Happily, however, the odds are in favor of this clueless Administration having screwed up big time. Again. No one thinks an indictment is going to be handed down charging these guys with outing a CIA agent. This is going to be about abstruction of justice, perjury, or leaking classified info. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/168 "2005-10-21T16:09:09Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No one thinks an indictment is going to be handed down charging these guys with outing a CIA agent. This is going to be about abstruction of justice, perjury, or leaking classified info. Might be conspiracy charges, too. I’ve read where David Wurmser is testifying to meetings in which Cheney was in attendance and the Plame outing was discussed. The link might be in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/169 "2005-10-21T16:13:54Z")
Here’s the link to the Wurmser story (again). [http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Second\_Cheney\_aide\_cooperating\_in\_leak\_1019.html](http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Second_Cheney_aide_cooperating_in_leak_1019.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/170 "2005-10-21T16:18:29Z")
> [@E = mc²](#): > > Might be conspiracy charges, too. Yes. I forgot that one, but it makes sense considering all the stuff about Libby and Rove discussing Plame before they talked to any reporters. Plus, conspiracy is often a much easier crime to prosecute than the actual crime itself. It’s hard to believe that an amitious, high power guy like Fitzgerald is going to end a 2 year investigation by saying: Nope, nothing cirminal here. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/171 "2005-10-21T17:56:44Z")
And don’t forget the possibility of indictments under the [Espionage Act](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWespionage.htm). Just in: Patrick Fitzgerald has just put up a [web site](http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/index.html). Nothing much up there. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/172 "2005-10-21T18:23:55Z")
To return to the OP’s topic for a second, I wouldn’t expect Rice to be VP even if Cheney was indicted and quit because this doesn’t seem like a time you’d want to change Secretaries of State. Iraq is still Iraq, and I guess there will be renewed pressure on Syria as a result of the UN’s findings today. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/173 "2005-10-21T18:35:14Z")
Heh heh heh heh heh . . . [Wurmser](http://www.80stees.com/products/Revenge-Nerds-teeshirt-breasts.asp). Heh heh heh. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/174 "2005-10-25T02:48:24Z")
[New evidence suggests Libby learned Wilson’s name from Cheney.](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/politics/25leak.html?hp&ex=1130212800&en=ba1361e3bd1bec47&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 - I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday. Which doesn’t mean Cheney was involved or is going to be indicted, but it looks to me like Libby could be sunk. He said he got her name from journalists. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/175 "2005-10-25T08:26:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [New evidence suggests Libby learned Wilson’s name from Cheney.](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/25/politics/25leak.html?hp&ex=1130212800&en=ba1361e3bd1bec47&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > > Which doesn’t mean Cheney was involved or is going to be indicted, but it looks to me like Libby could be sunk. He said he got her name from journalists. Link broken? ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/176 "2005-10-25T08:31:57Z")
Somewhere on a TV news program yesterday, I heard that Fitzgerald proclaimed a year ago, that his investigation was just about finished. Did anyone else hear this — ever? If he did say it, Fitz must have then hit lode after lode after lode. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/177 "2005-10-25T10:29:10Z")
Link’s fixed now, or works for me anyway. From the rest of the information in the NY Times story, it appears Cheney specifically requested information about Wilson from the CIA, and CIA Director George Tenet gave him Plame’s identity as an operative (even if no names were used, which I doubt). That is, Cheney requested an investigation into an “enemy” of the administration, got a personal briefing from the Director himself giving him the dirt, then passed secret information on to his chief assistant. This giving of information must have been with the order to pass it to the media, the tacit assumption that this would be done or at least gross negligence as to whether it would be done. Tell me this isn’t some kind of crime, at least in the range of conspiracy etc if not violation of the Espionage Act or the (tightly defined) Intelligence Identities Protection Act. It also blows the “didn’t know it was secret” defence out of the water for both Cheney and Libby. Cheney got her identity as an operative personally from the goddamn CIA Director, and Libby knew this. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/178 "2005-10-25T13:10:41Z")
> [@E = mc²](#): > > Somewhere on a TV news program yesterday, I heard that Fitzgerald proclaimed a year ago, that his investigation was just about finished. Did anyone else hear this — ever? That would have been according to a court filing on [March 22, 2005](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32380-2005Apr6.html), when Fitzgerald wanted to compel Judy Miller to testify. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/179 "2005-10-25T15:35:46Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > That is, Cheney requested an investigation into an “enemy” of the administration, got a personal briefing from the Director himself giving him the dirt, then passed secret information on to his chief assistant. This giving of information must have been with the order to pass it to the media, the tacit assumption that this would be done or at least gross negligence as to whether it would be done. Tell me this isn’t some kind of crime, at least in the range of conspiracy etc if not violation of the Espionage Act or the (tightly defined) Intelligence Identities Protection Act. This isn’t some kind of crime, or at least in the range of conspiracy etc if not violation of the Espionage Act or the (tightly defined) Intelligence Identities Protection Act. That’s because you made up the parts that I underlined in your post. Those are your guesses, not facts in the case. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822/180 "2005-10-25T18:54:05Z")
I’d say they all follow logically even if not substantiated. Certainly all of what is underlined occured to Fitzgerald and he presumably would try to find facts to corraborate what is intuitively obvious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-going-to-see-vice-president-condi-rice-real-soon/326822.md?page=10)