# Are we in the second video game golden age? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275 "2008-12-02T01:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/81 "2008-12-06T14:36:49Z")
Nintendo always designs their systems to make money. They make profit on every Wii sold (and Gamecube, N64, etc.). That’s why the Wii is not more powerful. They could have made it much more robust to at least approach to XBox 360 and PS3, but they take the philosophy that they earn profit on everything they sell. Here’s an interesting article describing Nintendo’s philosophy. [Game Console Wars II, Nintendo Shaves Off Profits, Leaves Competition Scruffy](http://seekingalpha.com/article/34357-game-console-wars-ii-nintendo-shaves-off-profits-leaving-competition-scruffy) Their numbers are a little off (according to [here](http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/features/report-nintendo-makes-about-49-per-wii-sold-in-us/70921/?biz=1) and [here](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/24/xbox360_component_breakdown/)), but Nintendo is making about $50 a console while Xbox360 and PS3 are losing money at an even greater margin. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/82 "2008-12-06T16:29:58Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I loved my N64, but you have to admit, that after Zelda: Ocarina of Time, GoldenEye, Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64 the system had very little to offer. They did a great job porting Killer Instinct 2. I loved that game in the arcade and I loved it on N64. They really need to make a new KI for the Wii. That would pump me up. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/83 "2008-12-06T16:33:39Z")
> [@Apocalypso](#): > > How was the N64 an “influential” system? Some reasons have been listed as to why the PSX was considered influential, some of those people claiming that the N64 was influential (as a system), please elaborate. Having some good games does not make a system influential. Nintendo made the N64 notoriously difficult to program for, stubbornly persisted in sticking with an outdated cartridge system (which caused massive shortages of the few games that did sell well), and charged enormous licensing fees, all of which alienated most of their 3rd party developers (like Squaresoft). As a result, Nintendo and Rare seemed to be the only good companies producing decent N64 games, and they sure did trickle out slowly. Hence my **opinion** that the N64 was a failure, especially given how high they were riding with the SNES. As far as the influence of the N64 I believe they were the first console to use analog control sticks. You can’t get a whole lot more influential than that to be honest. N64 sucked but can’t deny that major contribution. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/84 "2008-12-06T17:23:09Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > As far as the influence of the N64 I believe they were the first console to use analog control sticks. You can’t get a whole lot more influential than that to be honest. > > N64 sucked but can’t deny that major contribution. It was not the first analog controller. That honor was reserved way back in the Atari days, although Atari’s was not conditionally-sensitive, because there was no difference between “walking” and “running” speeds in games, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/85 "2008-12-06T21:19:24Z")
Is there any way that we can agree that Wii Sports is both hugely influential as a video game and completely shitty as a video game at the same time? Because that’s sort of how I think of it. Huge influence because it basically sells the Wii on its own and defines the way people think about this console generation, but completely disappointing as a shallow set of games that are much farther from the sports they are trying to represent than they COULD be, given the potential of the Wii Remote. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/86 "2008-12-06T22:38:01Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > Is there any way that we can agree that Wii Sports is both hugely influential as a video game and completely shitty as a video game at the same time? Because that’s sort of how I think of it. Huge influence because it basically sells the Wii on its own and defines the way people think about this console generation, but completely disappointing as a shallow set of games that are much farther from the sports they are trying to represent than they COULD be, given the potential of the Wii Remote. Only if we can say the same thing about Halo. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/87 "2008-12-08T02:53:42Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It was not the first analog controller. That honor was reserved way back in the Atari days, although Atari’s was not conditionally-sensitive, because there was no difference between “walking” and “running” speeds in games, or anything like that. Therefore it wasn’t _analog_. The Atari had the first joystick as it’s controller, but it wasn’t analog. That makes a huge difference > [@Wolverine](#): > > Nintendo always designs their systems to make money. They make profit on every Wii sold (and Gamecube, N64, etc.). That’s why the Wii is not more powerful. They could have made it much more robust to at least approach to XBox 360 and PS3, but they take the philosophy that they earn profit on everything they sell. This is both true and false. Nintendo does design their systems to make a profit, however one of the main reasons they went the “innovation over power” approach this time around was because they realized they simply _couldn’t_ compete graphically with Microsoft or Sony. They tried on the gamecube and, while it was graphically more powerful than the ps2 it was limited in many other ways. So basically they failed at competeing with the other two companies over power, so they went a different route this time around > [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > Only if we can say the same thing about Halo. I will and do say the same about Halo. Terrible game. Whatever you could say about it being innovative 7 years ago can’t be said for either of the two sequels as they were exactly the same. Well, plus in my opinion when MS bought Bungie and completely changed EVERYTHING about the game (changing it from 3rd person tactical shooter to FPS, chaging it from open world to linear gameplay, scaling down the 40v40 to possibly 60v60 online gameplay to 8v8 or whatever, etc) they ruined it. I followed that game for 2 years before it came out, and microsoft completely ruined it for me ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/88 "2008-12-08T03:33:46Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I will and do say the same about Halo. Terrible game. Whatever you could say about it being innovative 7 years ago can’t be said for either of the two sequels as they were exactly the same. Well, plus in my opinion when MS bought Bungie and completely changed EVERYTHING about the game (changing it from 3rd person tactical shooter to FPS, chaging it from open world to linear gameplay, scaling down the 40v40 to possibly 60v60 online gameplay to 8v8 or whatever, etc) they ruined it. I followed that game for 2 years before it came out, and microsoft completely ruined it for me I could not disagree more. I am not a FPS guy at all but Halo is one of my favorite games of all time. The sequels sucked, mainly because the story got too complicated and contrived, but the original Halo was a great game. It was innovative, great graphics, smooth gameplay, well-paced, amazing story, amazing music, good AI, well-mapped, etc. etc. etc. I could not say enough good things about that game. Tied with the first KoTOR for my #1 favorite game on Xbox\*, and I loved a lot of games on that system. \*Actually, if actions speak louder than words, it’d be my favorite game on Xbox, bar none. I have A LOT more hours on it than I do KoTOR, both online and off. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/89 "2008-12-08T03:49:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I could not disagree more. I am not a FPS guy at all but Halo is one of my favorite games of all time. The sequels sucked, mainly because the story got too complicated and contrived, but the original Halo was a great game. It was innovative, great graphics, smooth gameplay, well-paced, amazing story, amazing music, good AI, well-mapped, etc. etc. etc. I could not say enough good things about that game. Tied with the first KoTOR for my #1 favorite game on Xbox\*, and I loved a lot of games on that system. > \*Actually, if actions speak louder than words, it’d be my favorite game on Xbox, bar none. I have A LOT more hours on it than I do KoTOR, both online and off. I didn’t write that but Halo (much like Goldeneye before it) was a watered down, poorly made version of what PC gamers had been playing for a long time before their release. The level design was absolutely horrendous with eternal exactly the same corridors on a straight path. The enemies were just as repetitive with the same few over and over again in waves like a World War 1 army. The story was tripe but that’s to be expected from any video game (in full fairness to Halo 1 they didn’t try to make it central to the game so it did have that in its favor). And I haven’t even gotten into the controls which might have been special for a console game but going from computer FPS’s to it made you feel like the game was taking place underwater. It was a bland, poorly made FPS that somehow became the defining standard for the past seven years of FPS’s which might be why a good one is so impossibly rare now. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/90 "2008-12-08T03:51:05Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I could not disagree more. I am not a FPS guy at all but Halo is one of my favorite games of all time. The sequels sucked, mainly because the story got too complicated and contrived, but the original Halo was a great game. It was innovative, great graphics, smooth gameplay, well-paced, amazing story, amazing music, good AI, well-mapped, etc. etc. etc. I could not say enough good things about that game. Tied with the first KoTOR for my #1 favorite game on Xbox\*, and I loved a lot of games on that system. > \*Actually, if actions speak louder than words, it’d be my favorite game on Xbox, bar none. I have A LOT more hours on it than I do KoTOR, both online and off. I’ll give you the great music and graphics, and the gameplay was smooth, but everything else I disagree with. AI was decent, ok, but the story was pretty bland, the pacing was decent but definitely not great, and the levels were rather bleh, especailly comapred to early builds of the game before microsoft took over, where the levels were huge, open, there was wildlife running around, you could explore everywhere, etc. The chopped down xbox version just didn’t compare to the game they were originally making. I seriously hope they eventually do go back around and make the game the Halo was originally meant to be. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/91 "2008-12-08T04:03:21Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I didn’t write that but Halo (much like Goldeneye before it) was a watered down, poorly made version of what PC gamers had been playing for a long time before their release. The level design was absolutely horrendous with eternal exactly the same corridors on a straight path. The enemies were just as repetitive with the same few over and over again in waves like a World War 1 army. The story was tripe but that’s to be expected from any video game (in full fairness to Halo 1 they didn’t try to make it central to the game so it did have that in its favor). And I haven’t even gotten into the controls which might have been special for a console game but going from computer FPS’s to it made you feel like the game was taking place underwater. Just to defend GoldenEye for a second. It was the first FPS that included mission objectives and the first FPS to include different objectives for different difficulty levels. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/92 "2008-12-08T04:09:29Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Just to defend GoldenEye for a second. It was the first FPS that included mission objectives and the first FPS to include different objectives for different difficulty levels. Two words: System. Shock. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/93 "2008-12-08T04:15:25Z")
You aren’t going to have a ton of trouble convincing me to go against Halo; I’m not a huge FPS fan, but when I need to scratch that particular itch, it’s Unreal Tournament all the way for competitive multiplayer, and something with as many RPG elements as possible for single player. Halo was utterly NOT up my particular alley. Of course, that probably makes me significantly less qualified to judge it on its merits . . . ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/94 "2008-12-08T04:48:34Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I didn’t write that but Halo (much like Goldeneye before it) was a watered down, poorly made version of what PC gamers had been playing for a long time before their release. The level design was absolutely horrendous with eternal exactly the same corridors on a straight path. The enemies were just as repetitive with the same few over and over again in waves like a World War 1 army. The story was tripe but that’s to be expected from any video game (in full fairness to Halo 1 they didn’t try to make it central to the game so it did have that in its favor). And I haven’t even gotten into the controls which might have been special for a console game but going from computer FPS’s to it made you feel like the game was taking place underwater. > > It was a bland, poorly made FPS that somehow became the defining standard for the past seven years of FPS’s which might be why a good one is so impossibly rare now. I believe Halo was the first game to use the regenerating health system (shields) as opposed to having to find health packs/med kits. Whether you consider this a good or a bad thing is up to you ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/95 "2008-12-08T05:00:46Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I didn’t write that but Halo (much like Goldeneye before it) was a watered down, poorly made version of what PC gamers had been playing for a long time before their release. The level design was absolutely horrendous with eternal exactly the same corridors on a straight path. The enemies were just as repetitive with the same few over and over again in waves like a World War 1 army. The story was tripe but that’s to be expected from any video game (in full fairness to Halo 1 they didn’t try to make it central to the game so it did have that in its favor). And I haven’t even gotten into the controls which might have been special for a console game but going from computer FPS’s to it made you feel like the game was taking place underwater. > > It was a bland, poorly made FPS that somehow became the defining standard for the past seven years of FPS’s which might be why a good one is so impossibly rare now. I thought the story was awesome but oh well. Sounds like you just don’t like console FPSs. If that’s all you’re comparing it to then it isn’t fair. Can you name a console FPS that came out before it that it is bland and poorly made in comparison to? If you say Goldeneye, I’d say you’re speaking more out of nostalgia than objectivity. If you’re a computer FPS guy you’re just not going to like using a control pad. I personally cannot stand the keyboard/mouse combo in that type of game. I’ll give you The Library was repetitive but I found the other levels very well designed. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/96 "2008-12-08T05:04:18Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > I’ll give you the great music and graphics, and the gameplay was smooth, but everything else I disagree with. AI was decent, ok, but the story was pretty bland, the pacing was decent but definitely not great, and the levels were rather bleh, especailly comapred to early builds of the game before microsoft took over, where the levels were huge, open, there was wildlife running around, you could explore everywhere, etc. The chopped down xbox version just didn’t compare to the game they were originally making. > > I seriously hope they eventually do go back around and make the game the Halo was originally meant to be. Apparently I’m the lone Halo apologist on the boards. It’s the best multiplayer experience, and it’s not even close. Not only that, but it single-handedly brought the Xbox division of Microsoft into the black. As a first-person shooter, it’s emulated the same way that World of Warcraft is. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/97 "2008-12-08T05:10:16Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Apparently I’m the lone Halo apologist on the boards. You maverick, you! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/98 "2008-12-08T05:15:46Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > I believe Halo was the first game to use the regenerating health system (shields) as opposed to having to find health packs/med kits. Whether you consider this a good or a bad thing is up to you That and the vehicle handling are the only two nice things I have to say for the game. Unfortunately the health system has been copied and inappropriately implemented so many times now that I’m sick of it but Halo is the first time that vehicles in an FPS game have really been implemented well. > [@Cisco](#): > > I thought the story was awesome but oh well. Sounds like you just don’t like console FPSs. If that’s all you’re comparing it to then it isn’t fair. Can you name a console FPS that came out before it that it is bland and poorly made in comparison to? If you say Goldeneye, I’d say you’re speaking more out of nostalgia than objectivity. If you’re a computer FPS guy you’re just not going to like using a control pad. I personally cannot stand the keyboard/mouse combo in that type of game. I’ll give you The Library was repetitive but I found the other levels very well designed. No, as I briefly mentioned in my post Goldeneye is a similar situation where a lot of people not really familiar with FPS’s played a vastly inferior one to what PC game players were enjoying at the same point and held it up as brilliant. And as I said I greatly dislike playing an FPS with console controllers but it’s just one aspect of what I dislike in Halo. My greatest complaint is that the levels consist of long stretched of identically textured, identically shaped, identically placed hallways. And then you go through them backward after you finished. It’s level design makes me want to hurt the people who thought it was a good idea. It’s horrible design from so many different angles that it’s shocking. I went over most of my other complaints but that’s what stands out to me in Halo. That and the game is only a few hours long but quite frankly it’s a blessing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/99 "2008-12-08T05:26:47Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > That and the vehicle handling are the only two nice things I have to say for the game. Unfortunately the health system has been copied and inappropriately implemented so many times now that I’m sick of it but Halo is the first time that vehicles in an FPS game have really been implemented well. I agree with you on that. It did the vehicle segments quite well. That was, in fact, the only part I liked about Halo 3, the last vehicle segment. > [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Apparently I’m the lone Halo apologist on the boards. It’s the best multiplayer experience, and it’s not even close. Not only that, but it single-handedly brought the Xbox division of Microsoft into the black. As a first-person shooter, it’s emulated the same way that World of Warcraft is. For better or worse. The gameplay of simply running forward and shooting is incredibly lame. Most of the other FPS’s that distinguish themselves these days (Ghost Recon, Gears of War, etc) don’t use this at all, either opting for more of a strategical approach to things or going the “cover is king” route, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275/100 "2008-12-08T05:34:54Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > You maverick, you! You betcha! Actually, there are a couple of other Dopers that partake in the Halo festivities. **PopeJewish** : Playing like that will insure that you stay low-ranked. That’s no way to play any FPS. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-in-the-second-video-game-golden-age/475275.md?page=6)