# Are we "Lambs heading to Slaughter" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077 "2012-10-27T22:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/81 "2012-10-31T03:58:45Z")
The OP hasn’t posted since Saturday. I wonder if that means he was hustled off to Guantanamo Bay by the men in black helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/82 "2012-10-31T04:46:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is virtually no way a country could stop it’s own armed citizens in an uprising. It’s how this country was formed. I was not aware that the French and Spanish forces that kept British troops occupied, along with the services of trained professional soldiers from France, Poland, and what would become Germany counted as “armed citizens in an uprising.” (And it did not hurt that the war was very unpopular in Britain.) On the other hand, as noted, the Iraqis were armed for years before Hussein was finally overthrown by outside forces. An exaggeration by Der Trihs is not really effectively countered by retelling the U.S. story with most of the relevant points omitted. As to the unstoppable nature of armed citizens, try telling that to the secessionist states in the U.S. between 1861 and 1865. (And the Berlin Wall–well outside the Soviet Union–fell to unarmed people over thirty years after the Soviets had last turned their weapons on a European people. Times and people change.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/83 "2012-11-01T01:54:30Z")
> [@TomUndead](#): > > I was not aware that the French and Spanish forces that kept British troops occupied, along with the services of trained professional soldiers from France, Poland, and what would become Germany counted as “armed citizens in an uprising.” (And it did not hurt that the war was very unpopular in Britain.) Well I guess the Continental Army was just a myth then. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/84 "2012-11-01T02:11:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well I guess the Continental Army was just a myth then. If you believe that the soldiers in that army supplied their own weapons, then you have, indeed, bought into a misleading myth. If you recognize that that army was supplied weapons, ball, and powder by the financial efforts of a government, massively supported by a foreign power, then you make my point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/85 "2012-11-01T04:26:10Z")
> [@TomUndead](#): > > If you believe that the soldiers in that army supplied their own weapons, then you have, indeed, bought into a misleading myth. If you recognize that that army was supplied weapons, ball, and powder by the financial efforts of a government, massively supported by a foreign power, then you make my point. I believe the common man took on the largest empire of it’s day. My original point stands. There is no way a country could stop an armed populous. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/86 "2012-11-01T07:48:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well I guess the Continental Army was just a myth then. The Continental Army wasn’t a myth. But the idea that the Continental Army was a bunch of self-armed militia men is a myth. The Continental Army was composed of trained soldiers using government-issued weapons just like the soldiers who fought in every other American war. There were militia units around but Washington had no use for them. Washington found the militia couldn’t stand up to the British regulars in battles so he wanted to have them sent home so they wouldn’t keep using up the supplies he needed for his regular troops. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/87 "2012-11-01T08:15:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This is quite simple: there is no law or power under executive order to suspend the Constitution. That is total, absolute, undeniable conspiracy nonsense. All the powers exercised by the Federal government flow from the Constitution, and there are absolutely no secret processes or magic words that allow any branch of the government to usurp powers it is not given by the Constitution. The existence of FEMA does not change the foundational documet of our government by even one micro speck. I take issue with this post. I don’t think anybody who is familiar with FEMA regulations would argue that the word “document” contains an n. Document. In every other sense, the thread was wrapped up right here. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/88 "2012-11-01T08:24:07Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/89 "2012-11-07T21:47:13Z")
I just wanted to check back and see if our constitutional rights had been suspended yet. I mean, yesterday, even though there was a state of emergency in some parts of the country, I was able to use a secret ballot to vote for the leaders of my national and state governments, and some of them won while others lost and all that, but I wanted to see if anything has changed in the last 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/90 "2012-11-07T22:40:47Z")
Well, here in the FEMA “protection” Connecticut displaced person’s camp, the facilitators / guards bought in a voting machine, collected our ID numbers, and assured us that we voted successfully. They didn’t bring in any ballots, but if asked I’ll swear we voted, otherwise they might get out the hose again. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/91 "2012-11-07T23:32:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I believe the common man took on the largest empire of it’s day. My original point stands. There is no way a country could stop an armed populous. If military defeat of motivated common men is impossible, then how did the Union crush the Confederacy? There were thousands of country boys from the south who picked up their rifles to fight the invading tyrants, and they were killed and the South lost. How was that possible? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/92 "2012-11-08T00:43:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If military defeat of motivated common men is impossible, then how did the Union crush the Confederacy? There were thousands of country boys from the south who picked up their rifles to fight the invading tyrants, and they were killed and the South lost. How was that possible? duplicate message ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/93 "2012-11-08T00:46:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > If military defeat of motivated common men is impossible, then how did the Union crush the Confederacy? There were thousands of country boys from the south who picked up their rifles to fight the invading tyrants, and they were killed and the South lost. How was that possible? because there was thousands of country boys in the North. And it was a slaughter on both sides. It was a war between states and governments as opposed to a federal exertion of power over the masses. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/94 "2012-11-08T01:38:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > because there was thousands of country boys in the North. And it was a slaughter on both sides. It was a war between states and governments as opposed to a federal exertion of power over the masses. In your mind, when exactly did we abandon the strategy of a bunch of country boys grabbing the rifle off their mantle and banding together to defeat the enemy? Do you imagine it was the citizen’s militia that stormed the beaches at Normandy, armed with nothing but the family tank? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/95 "2012-11-08T02:15:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heh, reminds me of one of my favorite _Simpsons_ jokes. It involved Al Gore. Guess it probably isn’t [this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHVxjMT1-os), but it’s the one I remember laughing at. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/96 "2012-11-08T02:26:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In your mind, when exactly did we abandon the strategy of a bunch of country boys grabbing the rifle off their mantle and banding together to defeat the enemy? Do you imagine it was the citizen’s militia that stormed the beaches at Normandy, armed with nothing but the family tank? Your question makes no sense in the context of of this thread. This is not a discussion of war. It’s a discussion of the ability of a government to exert force without limit against it’s citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/97 "2012-11-08T02:41:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your question makes no sense in the context of of this thread. This is not a discussion of war. It’s a discussion of the ability of a government to exert force without limit against it’s citizens. Why don’t you think the American civil war was an example of a government exerting force without limit against its citizens? The force being, marching the Union army down into the South and shooting anyone who tried to stop them. Why is that the Confederate army was doomed because it was a government fighting another government, but if they had disbanded their army and told everyone to just get a rifle and take random pot-shots at the Federals, they would have won? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/98 "2012-11-08T02:53:54Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Why don’t you think the American civil war was an example of a government exerting force without limit against its citizens? Because it wasn’t a single government. It was 2 governments waging war against each other. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/99 "2012-11-08T04:00:35Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Guess it probably isn’t [this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHVxjMT1-os), but it’s the one I remember laughing at. Yeah, it was [this one](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av8NTy5WkFc&feature=related), though the funny part is the 15 or so seconds that precede that clip. Anyway, with Obama’s re-election, I assume the OP is stocking up on canned food and shotguns. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077/100 "2012-11-08T05:17:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Because it wasn’t a single government. It was 2 governments waging war against each other. Then the Continental Army isn’t an example of an armed populace rising up either. The American Revolution involved two governments waging war as well, the Continental Congress vs the British Empire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lambs-heading-to-slaughter/639077.md?page=6)