# Are we lowering our immune systems by staying home? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 8, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402 "2020-05-08T12:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/1 "2020-05-08T12:08:49Z")
Our bodies are used to touching surfaces and our immune systems develop defenses to the germs we touch. By staying inside, washing our hands and staying away from people, aren’t we all lowering our immune systems? Once everyone goes outside and starts touching surfaces, won’t lots of people get sick? ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/2 "2020-05-08T12:44:36Z")
In principle, maybe. But this Covid-19 is nasty stuff. It’s not quite as bad, but maybe you can relate it to this: do you really want to go touching anthrax, bubonic plague, and leprosy germs to strengthen your immune system? Point being there is exercising your system and there is being nuts. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/3 "2020-05-08T13:00:20Z")
I was just reading something about this, the cutting words of the writer, > [@](#): > > UNLESS YOU LIVE INSIDE AN AUTOCLAVE, YOUR HOME IS PLENTY PATHOGEN-RICH > > The world is absolutely teeming with microbes. You’re coated in them, your house is coated in them, they enter your body with every breath you take and everything you eat. Your immune system is getting a perfectly adequate workout. You’re just restricting your exposure to a handful of things (respiratory pathogens) for a very short period of time. > > Jennifer L Kasten > MD: Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, New York, NY, 2010. > MSc: History of Medicine, Science and Technology, University of Oxford, Oxford, UK, 2005. > MSc: Control of Infectious Disease, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, London, UK, 2003.[RIGHT][CITE](https://www.facebook.com/jenniferkastenmd/posts/129158945403719)[/RIGHT] CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/4 "2020-05-08T13:11:24Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I was just reading something about this, the cutting words of the writer,CMC fnord! “Every breath you take and every move you make Every bond you break, every step you take, they’re infecting you” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/5 "2020-05-08T13:26:51Z")
I am not an expert, but I think rather than lack of exposure to germs, our immune systems are more at risk by laying around on the couch gaining weight and not getting enough exercise, fresh air, and sunshine. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/6 "2020-05-08T13:45:37Z")
We’re only wearing cloth masks and washing our hands not living in a sterile bubble so we’re still getting bombarded with bacterial and viral matter. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/7 "2020-05-08T14:23:05Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I am not an expert, but I think rather than lack of exposure to germs, our immune systems are more at risk by laying around on the couch gaining weight and not getting enough exercise, fresh air, and sunshine. In particular, there is some research suggesting that Vitamin D deficiency plays a role in Covid severity (e.g. [here](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.08.20058578v3)); this, in turn, is exacerbated by lack of sunlight. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/8 "2020-05-08T14:41:20Z")
Doubtful. As long as you are going outside, exercising, etc, you should be exposed to plenty of germs to keep your immune system healthy. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/9 "2020-05-08T14:52:07Z")
Is there any evidence that the immune system _needs_ to be “exercised”? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/10 "2020-05-08T14:54:42Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Is there any evidence that the immune system _needs_ to be “exercised”? or ‘‘fresh’ ‘air’’ or ‘sunshine’. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/11 "2020-05-08T14:59:13Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Is there any evidence that the immune system _needs_ to be “exercised”? Some, but as I understand it, it’s somewhat controversial. Look for articles on the “hygeine hypothesis,” like this one: [The hygiene hypothesis: How being too clean might be making us sick](https://www.vox.com/2014/6/25/5837892/is-being-too-clean-making-us-sick) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/12 "2020-05-08T15:19:59Z")
I share any juice I’m drinking with our Parrot, Rocco. He takes a sip, then I take a sip. My immune system is getting stimulated plenty. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/13 "2020-05-08T15:35:34Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I share any juice I’m drinking with our Parrot, Rocco. He takes a sip, then I take a sip. My immune system is getting stimulated plenty. I laughed heartily at this. My cats take tiny sips of my coffee and one of my cats kisses me on the lips. Yes I know they lick their assholes but I doubt we hairless apes are any more hygienic than they are. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/14 "2020-05-08T18:54:16Z")
This is actually something I wonder about. Anecdotally, which I’m aware isn’t data but I have a lot of anecdotes at this point, every single parent I know has gotten siiiiiiiick as a dog when their children started any kind of group activity (daycare, preschool, school), stayed sick almost constantly for about three years, and then their immune systems figured it out and they subsequently got sick much less severely. Now that we have two kids who have gone through daycare (youngest is 5) our immune systems are the best they’ve ever been, as far as I can tell. I’m kind of wondering if we should get covid-19 now rather than waiting until our immune systems aren’t working as well. (Don’t worry, I’m not going to go out and get it.) That being said, I don’t think a month at home is going to change much. I think it probably takes a lot longer than a month for immune systems to wane (perhaps corresponding to lowering of immunity from antibodies after a while, like all the discussions about how coronavirus antibodies may only be good for six months or so). But yeah… six months of this and I start wondering if my immune system isn’t working quite so well anymore. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/15 "2020-05-08T19:30:01Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > This is actually something I wonder about. Anecdotally, which I’m aware isn’t data but I have a lot of anecdotes at this point, every single parent I know has gotten siiiiiiiick as a dog when their children started any kind of group activity (daycare, preschool, school), stayed sick almost constantly for about three years, and then their immune systems figured it out and they subsequently got sick much less severely. > > Now that we have two kids who have gone through daycare (youngest is 5) our immune systems are the best they’ve ever been, as far as I can tell. I’m kind of wondering if we should get covid-19 now rather than waiting until our immune systems aren’t working as well. (Don’t worry, I’m not going to go out and get it.) > > That being said, I don’t think a month at home is going to change much. I think it probably takes a lot longer than a month for immune systems to wane (perhaps corresponding to lowering of immunity from antibodies after a while, like all the discussions about how coronavirus antibodies may only be good for six months or so). But yeah… six months of this and I start wondering if my immune system isn’t working quite so well anymore. I’m no expert, but I’m wondering if you’re maybe a bit confused. First, there’s no consensus immunity to COVID-19 wanes over time. It’s an unproven theory, and it’s much too soon to draw that conclusion. But even\*\* if\*\* it does, that wouldn’t mean immunity to most viruses, bacteria, etc., does. The immune system gets smarter when it encounters new germs, not stronger. And for the most part, it stays smarter for good. That’s not to say nothing affects immunity. Age, autoimmune disorders such as lupus, chemo, and other circumstances can do that. But lack of exposure to new pathogens doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/16 "2020-05-08T20:25:44Z")
Personally, I’m less stressed, eating better, sleeping better, exercising more and getting more sunshine (the weather has been nice during most of the UK lockdown). I suspect my immune system is in better shape than it has been for some time. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/17 "2020-05-08T21:12:05Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > This is actually something I wonder about. Anecdotally, which I’m aware isn’t data but I have a lot of anecdotes at this point, every single parent I know has gotten siiiiiiiick as a dog when their children started any kind of group activity (daycare, preschool, school), stayed sick almost constantly for about three years, and then their immune systems figured it out and they subsequently got sick much less severely. > > Now that we have two kids who have gone through daycare (youngest is 5) our immune systems are the best they’ve ever been, as far as I can tell. I’m kind of wondering if we should get covid-19 now rather than waiting until our immune systems aren’t working as well. (Don’t worry, I’m not going to go out and get it.) My understanding is that it isn’t that your immune system is getting stronger (as in more able to fight off new diseases), it’s that your kids are bringing home a bunch of things you’ve never seen. Generally speaking, if a disease doesn’t kill you, you won’t get it again. So eventually, your immune system has handled all of the new germs your kids are getting from the other kids at day care/school. So, when/if you catch Covid-19, you’re body will do what it does (nothing (your one of the asymptomatic folks), you cough a bit, you cough a lot, you go on a ventilator, you get a stroke, and/or you die). Previous exposure to other germs isn’t going to affect it much. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/18 "2020-05-08T21:38:33Z")
So I have a question: is there any possibility that exposure to other coronaviruses could help with fighting covid-19? I have heard that covid-19 is different from other coronaviruses in ways that would make this unlikely (is this true? are there citations?), but I also feel like this is one of the seventeen million things that no one knows about for sure. I know **DSeid** has speculated in other threads that this could be one of the reasons kids don’t generally get covid-19 as badly (although he concedes it is speculation). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/19 "2020-05-08T21:52:22Z")
Yes there is LOTS of evidence that immune systems need to be “exercised”, and that the “exercise” is not necessarily germ-specific. The shared stories here of exposure to your pets are some of where the evidence comes from in fact! [Pets](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/well/family/are-pets-the-new-probiotic.html) are the source for a fair amount of that exposure. > [@](#): > > Scientists are paying increasing attention to the “indoor microbiome,” the billions of bacteria, viruses and fungi that we share our homes and offices with. But not all those micro-organisms are bad for us, experts note. And exposure to a rich array of indoor germs may actually be salutary, helping stave off a variety of illnesses. > > So there is growing concern that, in our anxiety to banish bacteria from our indoor world, we have become too clean for our own good. We run the risk of scrubbing, disinfecting, vacuuming and filtering out the fortifying mix of microscopic creatures that our immune system needs to develop properly. > > Enter the dog. … > > … if the latest research on pets and human health is correct, that cloud of dog-borne microbes may be working to keep us healthy. Epidemiological studies show that children who grow up in households with dogs have a lower risk for developing autoimmune illnesses like asthma and allergies — and it may be a result of the diversity of microbes that these animals bring inside our homes. … > > … Our home environments already contain an abundance of microbes. An analysis of house dust collected by volunteers in a citizen science study called “The Wild Life of Our Homes” found more than 125,000 kinds of bacteria and 70,000-plus species of fungi in the participants’ dwellings. > > Each of us sheds 38 million bacteria into our environment every hour. We breathe them out; they flake off our skin. Many of those bacteria die right away in the warm, dry air of our homes. But countless microbes survive in house dust or cling to the surfaces of things like computer screens and pillowcases. > > Pets, and dogs especially, add a lot to the diversity of the indoor microbiome. Research has shown that dog ownership raised the levels of 56 different classes of bacterial species in the indoor environment, while naturally more fastidious cats boosted only 24 categories. We don’t yet know if contact with feline microbes also helps prevent immune disorders; there have not yet been large enough studies to provide reliable data, Dr. Gilbert said. “But we do know that indoor cats have less impact on the indoor microbiome than outdoor cats,” he added. … There are also impacts on what gets called the innate response. **nelliebly** for almost all germs our humoral responses (our antibody levels, the titers) fade, weaken over time. Memory T-cells last longer and can still provide protection even without measurable titers in some cases, may even be more important, and even diminished humoral responses can diminish severity of disease in many cases, if not completely prevent it. New exposures boost the response, make it not just smarter but yes STRONGER. Booster doses vaccines do the same. **raspberry hunter** is 100% correct. Kids are swimming in the cespool and like dogs out of a pond shaking it off around their parents who need to boost their responses to germs they have not seen very recently let alone very frequently in recent years. Teachers and pediatricians go through the same thing, the first year or two of teaching or in practice is one of frequent illness as our systems get reacquainted with old friends and we catch up with how we’ve each changed over the years. Next time we meet we don’t spend as much time together, and a few more times we jut ignore each other as we walk past each other. It would be unrealistic to hope that infection with SARS-CoV-2 would provide 100% protection 100% of the time forever. It is even more unrealistic to think that a vaccine would. Bringing this specific to COVID-19, one hypothesis for why children are at such relatively low risk from COPVID-19 is in fact their relatively frequent and recent exposures to the other human common cold causing coronaviruses, that those antibodies have enough cross reactivity to tag the virus and to then trigger an early and effective T-cell response, possibly inducing specific memory T-cells that will last a very very long time. If so those of us who work with kids may also be at particularly low risk. Agreed that indoors is not an aseptic bubble, plenty of exposures, and that for the viral exposures that boost us every year to three, a few months of shelter in place won’t do much. I do wonder though about what this artificial interruption of exposures will do the timing dynamics of the usual infectious diseases going forward … On preview I see I am slow … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402/20 "2020-05-08T22:04:24Z")
FWIW I am [not the only one](https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/possible-biological-explanations-for-kids-escape-from-covid-19-67273) to come up with that speculation. > [@](#): > > There are four other coronaviruses that infect humans, with symptoms typical of a common cold. These viruses are common in children. “We don’t know which of them, if any, might provide some cross immunity,” says Subbarao. It could be that immunity to viral proteins, obtained from circulating “common cold” viruses, moderates the course of COVID-19. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-lowering-our-immune-systems-by-staying-home/853402.md?page=2)