# Are we more down on kiddy-fiddling than we used to be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605 "2015-04-14T00:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/1 "2015-04-14T00:14:46Z")
At this point (at least in the U.S. and the U.K.), child molestation is one of the more horrific crimes. Has that been the case for more than a generation or two? I’m thinking of _The Score_ by Richard Stark and _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_. In both books characters are mentioned as going after young girls – the protagonist in the latter – and they’re portrayed as criminals, but not monsters. In the Parker book it’s mentioned in passing, not dwelt on, and while McMurphy in _Cuckoo’s Nest_ is no angel, it doesn’t seem to by something that puts him outside the pale of respectable society. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/2 "2015-04-14T03:36:59Z")
I would say that it has always been an extremely heinous crime. It’s just that in the past, say before the late 70s/early 80s it was so heinous as to simply be unmentionable anywhere in society except within the judicial system (police station, DA’s office, closed court etc.) And even there it could often get dismissed merely because of it’s unmentionable-ness. Hell, it probably usually got nipped in the bud right in the home for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/3 "2015-04-14T03:42:25Z")
It’s important not to conflate pedophilia and ephebofilia. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/4 "2015-04-14T13:02:01Z")
I think people just didn’t talk about it. And when it happened it was the creepy guy down the block rather than uncle Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/5 "2015-04-14T13:11:05Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I think people just didn’t talk about it. And when it happened it was the creepy guy down the block rather than uncle Joe. This is true of crimes against children generally. In recent years the focus has shifted from random strangers (who are a tiny fraction of offenders) to people closer to home, particularly family friends and relatives. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/6 "2015-04-14T19:23:31Z")
[What’s wrong with kiddie fiddling?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEOZ31HeZT4) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/7 "2015-04-14T19:44:08Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > It’s important not to conflate pedophilia and ephebofilia. “Hey, that’s some big words for a twelve year old.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/8 "2015-04-14T20:20:41Z")
Dude, I’m 53. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/9 "2015-04-14T20:30:39Z")
Back in the old days (say, the 1950-70 era) if someone was discovered to be molesting a child (assuming the child could convince the parents it actually happened) the matter was usually handled extra-legally – which meant the father or older brother got a few of his friends together to visit the offender, beat the shit out of him and warn him that if he ever got near the kide again, they’d kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/10 "2015-04-14T20:40:30Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Dude, I’m 53. Yeah, sorry, I was just thinking of the punchline to that old joke. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/11 "2015-04-14T21:02:52Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Yeah, sorry, I was just thinking of the punchline to that old joke. No worries, I was just playing along. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/12 "2015-04-14T21:05:39Z")
I think attitudes have clearly changed. Look at the arrest of Roman Polanski, he felt comfortable enough writing about raping a 13 year old in his autobiography and his friend Gore Vidal called his victim a “little hooker.” Fun fact, Vidal is buried very close to my house and my dog has shit on his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/13 "2015-04-14T21:36:28Z")
100+/- years ago, Albert Fish preyed primarily on Black children because he knew that would draw the least attention. That condition may have improved, somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/14 "2015-04-14T21:39:37Z")
Judging from the newspapers and TV shows of the time, it wasn’t like child molestation was ever considered acceptable, but it was something like bank robbery – if you were caught doing it you went to prison but it wasn’t considered a step apart from all other crimes. I think it was hard to separate the real and the social sexual crimes of the 1950s. Everything was a sexual taboo. You weren’t supposed to molest kids but you also weren’t supposed to have sex with an adult you weren’t married to, or be gay, or be a woman with a short haircut or pants on. As the sexual revolution happened and the sillier hangups fell off, it became more obvious that there really was something very damaging about all forms of rape, in tandem with the feminist movement bringing attention to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/15 "2015-04-14T21:46:30Z")
We had 4 child molesters on my block when I was a kid. To my knowledge the police were never called however parents on occassion would go over and punch one of thier lights out now and then. I was always puzzeld how they could get away with it. Certain kids were bribed to come over and visit with them and it seemed to go on for a long time. Parents minded their own business if it was not their kid or a very close friends kid. ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/16 "2015-04-15T01:08:42Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > At this point (at least in the U.S. and the U.K.), child molestation is one of the more horrific crimes. Has that been the case for more than a generation or two? > > I’m thinking of _The Score_ by Richard Stark and _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_. In both books characters are mentioned as going after young girls – the protagonist in the latter – and they’re portrayed as criminals, but not monsters. In the Parker book it’s mentioned in passing, not dwelt on, and while McMurphy in _Cuckoo’s Nest_ is no angel, it doesn’t seem to by something that puts him outside the pale of respectable society. I don’t know how Cuckoo’s Nest does as an example. McMurphy describes her as willing, and says that she appeared and claimed to be legal age. If he’s not lying about that, it doesn’t exactly make him a monster. I don’t remember if it was portrayed the same way in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/17 "2015-04-15T02:28:35Z")
[quote=“ALOHA\_HATER, post:16, topic:717605”] McMurphy describes her as willing, and says that she appeared and claimed to be legal age. /QUOTE] This is what everyone who gets busted for having sex with an underage teenage girl does, though. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/18 "2015-04-15T03:58:35Z")
Not sure if its to the OP or not but its been a problem long enough, in some senses, as to have generated outrage as far back as the 30s. But back then the diddlers covered themselves by marrying their victim. There was a movie about it in 1938 and the wiki page for the movie has other links to various aspects of child marriage. > **[Child Bride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Bride)** > > Child Bride, also known as Child Brides, Child Bride of the Ozarks and Dust to Dust (US reissue titles),\[citation needed\] is a 1938 American drama film directed by Harry Revier and produced by Raymond L. Friedgen. It was promoted as educational in an attempt to draw attention to the lack of laws banning child marriage in many states. > The film is set in a remote town in the Ozarks. It was very controversial at the time—both for its theme and because of a topless and nude swimming scene by then-... ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/19 "2015-04-15T04:04:25Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Dude, I’m 53. You looked 18. And I think it’s “kiddy diddling”. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/20 "2015-04-15T04:21:18Z")
I would say that the number of people who have the propensity to harm children and younger persons is about the same, it happens but its quite rare. Its just that people seem to think its open season on kids these days. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605.md?page=2)