# Are we more down on kiddy-fiddling than we used to be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605 "2015-04-14T00:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/21 "2015-04-15T04:30:49Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think attitudes have clearly changed. Look at the arrest of Roman Polanski, he felt comfortable enough writing about raping a 13 year old in his autobiography and his friend Gore Vidal called his victim a “little hooker.” Fun fact, Vidal is buried very close to my house and my dog has shit on his grave. Please tell me you don’t have a dog. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/22 "2015-04-15T04:33:53Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Judging from the newspapers and TV shows of the time, it wasn’t like child molestation was ever considered acceptable, but it was something like bank robbery – if you were caught doing it you went to prison but it wasn’t considered a step apart from all other crimes. I think it was hard to separate the real and the social sexual crimes of the 1950s. Everything was a sexual taboo. You weren’t supposed to molest kids but you also weren’t supposed to have sex with an adult you weren’t married to, or be gay, or be a woman with a short haircut or pants on. As the sexual revolution happened and the sillier hangups fell off, it became more obvious that there really was something very damaging about all forms of rape, in tandem with the feminist movement bringing attention to the issue. ^This. There was an era where child molestation was handled pretty much like adultery or sodomy or other sexual crimes–a nasty little secret, but not the worst thing that ever happened. It might or might not merit a prison sentence. Even into the 1980s, it wasn’t that unusual for incestuous child molestation to be handled in family court (“stay away from the kids”) with little or no prison time. Now it’s a mandatory 25 years before parole is even a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/23 "2015-04-15T05:05:04Z")
Is there any evolutionary compulsion to the fact that not so long ago in human history our lives were so much shorter so it wasn’t unusual at all for fully mature adult males, for instance, to marry what would today be considered creepily young females? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/24 "2015-04-15T05:38:51Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > And I think it’s “kiddy diddling”. You say diddling, I say fiddling… …and it would probably be the best thing for everyone if we called the whole thing off. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/25 "2015-04-15T05:59:11Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > ^This. > > There was an era where child molestation was handled pretty much like adultery or sodomy or other sexual crimes–a nasty little secret, but not the worst thing that ever happened. It might or might not merit a prison sentence. > > Even into the 1980s, it wasn’t that unusual for incestuous child molestation to be handled in family court (“stay away from the kids”) with little or no prison time. Now it’s a mandatory 25 years before parole is even a possibility. :rolleyes: Or might[merit the drop](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Bennett). Maybe [the gas chamber](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Wolfe_%28rapist%29). ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/26 "2015-04-15T09:19:27Z")
Maybe some common sense is coming back: > [@](#): > > Agency3:19PM BST 10 Apr 2015 > A top female judge stunned a court when she apologised to a man for sentencing him for having sex with a 15-year-old girl. > > Judge Sylvia de Bertodano also slammed the Crown Prosecution Service after Connor O’Keefe admitted having sex with an underage teen who “was nearly 16.” > > The 18-year-old had originally been charged with rape after his encounter with the girl, who got drunk at a festival in June last year, in a supermarket car park. > > A court heard O’Keefe, who was 17 at the time, and the victim were part of a group who went to a Morrisons [supermarket -open all night] in the early hours of the morning. > > The pair then had consensual sex in the car park of the store in Royal Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, after other friends went to a nearby McDonald’s. > [@](#): > > Sentencing him to a one month conditional discharge and ordering him to register as a sex offender for two weeks Judge de Bertodano admitted she felt “extremely sorry” for the defendant. > **[Judge in underage sex case says she feels 'extremely sorry' for defendant](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11527938/Judge-in-underage-sex-case-says-she-feels-extremely-sorry-for-defendant.html)** > > Judge Sylvia de Bertodano launches a scathing attack against the CPS for bringing the case to court ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/27 "2015-04-15T11:47:31Z")
Back then, when such things were never spoken of, that silence gave grown adults an out, from having to speak of unspeakable things. And they used it as an excuse to rationalize that any addressing or mentioning of such events would only further traumatize the child. Of course the reality was that just ignoring it, never speaking of it, traumatized the victim much, much worse than the pain of open revelation. And the phrase, ‘kiddy diddling’, is odious. We have surely evolved sufficiently that we no longer should employ a rhyming euphemism that diminishes the seriousness of a vicious crime, and belittles victims. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/28 "2015-04-15T12:00:33Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > ^This. > > There was an era where child molestation was handled pretty much like adultery or sodomy or other sexual crimes–a nasty little secret, but not the worst thing that ever happened. It might or might not merit a prison sentence. > > Even into the 1980s, it wasn’t that unusual for incestuous child molestation to be handled in family court (“stay away from the kids”) with little or no prison time. Now it’s a mandatory 25 years before parole is even a possibility. Remember **There’s Something About Amelia** where the dad finally admits to the therapist that he’s been having sex with his daughter, and is allowed back home to let the healing begin. Warm gushies (now of the appropriate sort) as the credits roll. That same year I worked in a Lutheran Social Services boys residential treatment center. One of our charges was removed from a home where he’d been punching the walls and dad was molesting little sister. Dad and sis stayed home under monitoring. One report told how he’d gotten an erection while giving her a spanking, but progress was optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/29 "2015-04-15T12:27:04Z")
I think people are more severe about 17yrs old = “legally a child” vs 18yrs old = “now an adult” than they used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/30 "2015-04-15T13:13:53Z")
My guess is that after the “let it all hang out” era of the 60’s to mid 70’s, old-fashioned puritanical morality got rebranded as an obsession with victimization and trauma. Different theories, same outcome: No sex with or between teenagers, elaborate protocols of decorum to protect women, slut shaming, etc. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/31 "2015-04-15T13:30:27Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Dude, I’m 53. I’m 58. How _you_ doin’, youngster! 😃 As for the OP, I think it depends on how far back in time you go. I think most people are assuming we’re talking about the last 100 years or so. I think the farther back in time you go, the more it’s seen as something young folk just have to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/32 "2015-04-15T14:09:18Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Please tell me you don’t have a dog. Oh, she shat on Gore many a time, but now it’s a no dogs graveyard. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/33 "2015-04-15T14:17:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Is there any evolutionary compulsion to the fact that not so long ago in human history our lives were so much shorter so it wasn’t unusual at all for fully mature adult males, for instance, to marry what would today be considered creepily young females? This isn’t really true, except for political alliances among royalty and the aristocracy (which did involve very young marriages, but they wouldn’t be consummated until the couple reached their mid- to late teens, and the husband was likely to be as young as the wife). In most medieval and Renaissance societies marriage in one’s twenties was the norm for ordinary people; the young couple had to be able to support themselves, which usually meant that the man would have completed his apprenticeship and the woman would have spent several years working as a domestic servant. Life was shorter, but it was mostly shorter at the early end – _huge_ numbers of children died in infancy or early childhood, but healthy people in their twenties certainly weren’t thinking “well, I’d better hurry up and get married because I’ll probably be dead by thirty.” ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/34 "2015-04-15T20:21:48Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > It’s important not to conflate pedophilia and ephebofilia. This is true. Think of all the “Sweet Little 16” songs from the 50s and 60s. Teenage girls were always lusted after by grown men, and I don’t think that’s changed. It’s just gotten confused with pedophilia and therefore people are far less open about it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/35 "2015-04-15T20:47:27Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > This is true. Think of all the “Sweet Little 16” songs from the 50s and 60s. Teenage girls were always lusted after by grown men, and I don’t think that’s changed. It’s just gotten confused with pedophilia and therefore people are far less open about it. Of course even back then they’d coined the term “jail bait”. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/36 "2015-04-15T20:52:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > This is true. Think of all the “Sweet Little 16” songs from the 50s and 60s. Teenage girls were always lusted after by grown men, and I don’t think that’s changed. Teenage girls were also lusted after by teenage boys. I had an affair with a sexpot a whole two years older than me at 15. Good thing no one called the cops on us then. Most of us thought it was…wait for it…_normal._ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/37 "2015-04-15T21:01:15Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Teenage girls were also lusted after by teenage boys. I had an affair with a sexpot a whole two years older than me at 15. Good thing no one called the cops on us then. Most of us thought it was…wait for it…_normal._ When I was 19, I was in a relationship with a girl who was 15. And trust me, when I say that she was the one who seduced me, that is a fact, not Humbert Humberting. Then again, the age of consent where I live is 16. No one thought of it as skeevy at all, as far as I could tell. Up to and including her parents. We were together for a while and stayed friends. “Normal” would be the right word for it. ETA: Of course, if I was to hook up with a 15 year old at my current age, I would be a freaking perv. That I have no problem with. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/38 "2015-04-15T21:09:48Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Back in the old days (say, the 1950-70 era) if someone was discovered to be molesting a child (assuming the child could convince the parents it actually happened) the matter was usually handled extra-legally – which meant the father or older brother got a few of his friends together to visit the offender, beat the shit out of him and warn him that if he ever got near the kide again, they’d kill him. Judging by some things I heard from my father and some other, even old timier cops, punishment of molesty sorts was handled extra-legally by cops from time to time, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/39 "2015-04-15T21:15:07Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Of course even back then they’d coined the term “jail bait”. True. I don’t think the social mores have changed much. Even in the past, kids were off limits, and teenagers were a gray area where old dudes who chased young women were looked down. The difference I think is a mass hysteria about pedophiles. I was lectured about letting my 8 year old walk two blocks to the park by himself because there are “child molesters on every street”. :rolleyes: It’s a new satanic panic. So I don’t think we’re any more “down” on pedophilia than we always were. It’s just that now they’ve been elevated to boogeyman levels where in the past it just wasn’t talked about. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605/40 "2015-04-15T22:45:34Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > When I was 19, I was in a relationship with a girl who was 15. And trust me, when I say that she was the one who seduced me, that is a fact, not Humbert Humberting. > > Then again, the age of consent where I live is 16. > > No one thought of it as skeevy at all, as far as I could tell. Up to and including her parents. > > We were together for a while and stayed friends. “Normal” would be the right word for it. > > ETA: Of course, if I was to hook up with a 15 year old at my current age, I would be a freaking perv. That I have no problem with. Indeed, back in the 1950’s, when they were married, my dad was 19 and my mom was 16 - no she was not pregnant. It was not the norm, but it was also not entirely scandalous. I can’t help but think in today’s world this would not happen and my father would have been prosecuted… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-more-down-on-kiddy-fiddling-than-we-used-to-be/717605.md?page=3)