# Are we off the rails in "Elections"? Do we need corrective action? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 17, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974 "2016-12-17T21:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/21 "2016-12-18T16:00:28Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. “The election” isn’t “the only election”. And all you would do is send all those threads into GD and other forums. Better to keep them sequestered in Elections. Even if they are completely horrible, at least we know where they all are and can avoid them if we want. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/22 "2016-12-18T16:20:07Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. This is a serious question: it is an option for you to pretend the Elections forum doesn’t exist and just not go there? If that is not an option, why not? Examples showing why this is a legitimate question: do you go to movies you don’t like, or watch TV shows you don’t like, eat food you don’t like? If you don’t like the Elections forum, why do you go there at all? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/23 "2016-12-18T16:31:24Z")
Also, if the Elections forum is closed, all that contentless “Trump is teh Evuls!/No he’s not!” crap will just pollute GD the way it’s ruining The Pit. At least it limits it more-or-less to two forums. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/24 "2016-12-18T16:40:42Z")
The problem is that there is no discussion on Trump. There is a side that refuses to normalize him, which means that things will never settle down. And there is a side that supports him, which means they support his tactics, which are to deliberately try to piss everyone off. So they won’t settle down, either. I’d actually be concerned if things settled down. I also don’t personally like this stuff being moved to the Pit. We’re supposed to be able to rant outside the Pit, as long as we don’t attack other posters. Moving it to the Pit inevitably turns the thread into one about the Trump supporting posters. There should be a way to talk about how horrible Trump is without it winding up in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/25 "2016-12-18T16:57:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I also don’t personally like this stuff being moved to the Pit. We’re supposed to be able to rant outside the Pit, as long as we don’t attack other posters. No, we’re not. The Pit is for all types of rants, not just about other posters. From the main page about the BBQ Pit form: “For rants about the world or beefs with another poster.” It’s not uncommon for rants in GD to be moved to the Pit. It’s not just Elections. > [@](#): > > Moving it to the Pit inevitably turns the thread into one about the Trump supporting posters. > > There should be a way to talk about how horrible Trump is without it winding up in the Pit. There is. Don’t rant about it. 1. Let’s debate the possible ways we might end up in a war during the Trump administration. 2. OMFG, the WORLD IS GOING TO END IN WAR because Orange-Faced Drumpf is going to murder every brown person on the planet!!! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/26 "2016-12-18T17:09:21Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Get him a comb over and have him lie about his height and weight. Enough people will believe him and he’ll get to ride. Won’t work. His little hands will give him away. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/27 "2016-12-18T17:21:12Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. There’s more than one election and there is always an election happening somewhere, even it’s for dogcatcher in Nowheresville, Indiana. And if people wish to discuss that election then it’s good to have a forum in which to do that. A specific election forum on the SDMB was one of the best ideas since sliced bread. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/28 "2016-12-18T17:39:50Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Also, if the Elections forum is closed, all that contentless “Trump is teh Evuls!/No he’s not!” crap will just pollute GD the way it’s ruining The Pit. At least it limits it more-or-less to two forums. > [@BigT](#): > > The problem is that there is no discussion on Trump. There is a side that refuses to normalize him, which means that things will never settle down. And there is a side that supports him, which means they support his tactics, which are to deliberately try to piss everyone off. So they won’t settle down, either. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/29 "2016-12-18T18:03:49Z")
First up, I retract my closing statement about not being able to discuss things. We _can_ discuss things, but right now it’s just much, much harder. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > **Irony much?** Seriously, by what means would you suppress this rhetorical device? Mod note or warning? Or should we just use our words to show how weak such ploys are? Not following the bolded portion. Other than that, yes, it would be good if we used our words, but that often derails the thread completely into a discussion of the hypocrisy of one group or the others. This happens even if there’s someone saying that wasn’t the question asked or criticizing the post as a weak attempt to shift the discussion. My response for now will be to try to re-direct back to the topic at hand. > [@Fenris](#): > > Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Exhibit A. What he said. I will grant you that more things have been moving to the Pit, but in most cases this means the original question falls off the table. I did/do think that increased substance in Elections was worthy of a group huddle. If the group consensus is “let it ride,” that’s a fair answer. If things haven’t resolved in 6 months, perhaps Elections needed to be combined with the Pit and not GD. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/30 "2016-12-18T18:09:10Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. I have too much a case of lazy to find any links but some of the midterm threads have made some of the better reading. Especially those on state referendums and some of the governor/judicial races. Right now I can skim the list of threads and move on sometimes but say 2018 I’ll probably jump in every one to at least read the full OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/31 "2016-12-18T18:32:22Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This spread is split off from the discussion on trolling started in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813948). > > The issue has been raised that discussions in the Elections forum have become so partisan and absolutist that a) no real discussion is accomplished, and b) many participants could easily be called on trolling, due to how quickly the teams go to their corners and start throwing bricks. Person A knows what “the other side” is going to say in response to a particular topic, but comes in to say it and ruffle feathers. Both “sides” do this. This presents the appearance of trolling, whether or not it was intended to do so. > > Because we are, generally speaking, a Board that prides itself on rational discussion and debate, I wanted to raise the question of what we should do about the Elections forum. Do we assume that the spittle will stop flying after everyone has gotten through the first 100 days of the next presidency? Essentially, that means we do nothing and folks just stay out of the forum unless they want to indulge in partisan bickering. > > Do we start to more strictly enforce rules about debate and discussion? I think this would require general consensus that rational debate on policies, issues, and politics is desirable. Possible next steps would be: rapid punting of any thread to the Pit if it descends into pointless, partisan bickering, mod notes that call out the behaviors, closing threads that are duplicative, and more guide rails about staying on topic. For example, is “your side does it too” a valid rhetorical device? Should we allow it? I’ve seen multiple threads derailed by that rabbit hole alone. > > I’m starting this thread because I don’t think that most of us want an Elections forum that is a cesspool of trolling behavior. Notice that I am saying “behavior” there, NOT that anyone there is a troll. I just think we’ve gotten so heated over this election and its aftermath that we, collectively, have adopted some unproductive behaviors. > > What do you all think? Is the Elections forum a problem for the Board? Does anything need to be done or do we just wait for a self-correction? > > I personally would like things just a bit more circumscribed. It’s impossible to actually discuss almost anything right now. Oh yeah? Well, I double _dog_ dare ya! ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/32 "2016-12-18T19:18:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. There are several crucial elections in Europe in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/33 "2016-12-19T15:28:20Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This spread is split off from the discussion on trolling started in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=813948). > > The issue has been raised that discussions in the Elections forum have become so partisan and absolutist that a) no real discussion is accomplished, and b) many participants could easily be called on trolling, due to how quickly the teams go to their corners and start throwing bricks. Person A knows what “the other side” is going to say in response to a particular topic, but comes in to say it and ruffle feathers. Both “sides” do this. This presents the appearance of trolling, whether or not it was intended to do so. > > Because we are, generally speaking, a Board that prides itself on rational discussion and debate, I wanted to raise the question of what we should do about the Elections forum. Do we assume that the spittle will stop flying after everyone has gotten through the first 100 days of the next presidency? Essentially, that means we do nothing and folks just stay out of the forum unless they want to indulge in partisan bickering. > > Do we start to more strictly enforce rules about debate and discussion? I think this would require general consensus that rational debate on policies, issues, and politics is desirable. Possible next steps would be: rapid punting of any thread to the Pit if it descends into pointless, partisan bickering, mod notes that call out the behaviors, closing threads that are duplicative, and more guide rails about staying on topic. For example, is “your side does it too” a valid rhetorical device? Should we allow it? I’ve seen multiple threads derailed by that rabbit hole alone. > > I’m starting this thread because I don’t think that most of us want an Elections forum that is a cesspool of trolling behavior. Notice that I am saying “behavior” there, NOT that anyone there is a troll. I just think we’ve gotten so heated over this election and its aftermath that we, collectively, have adopted some unproductive behaviors. > > What do you all think? Is the Elections forum a problem for the Board? Does anything need to be done or do we just wait for a self-correction? > > I personally would like things just a bit more circumscribed. It’s impossible to actually discuss almost anything right now. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > First up, I retract my closing statement about not being able to discuss things. We _can_ discuss things, but right now it’s just much, much harder. > > Not following the bolded portion. Other than that, yes, it would be good if we used our words, but that often derails the thread completely into a discussion of the hypocrisy of one group or the others. This happens even if there’s someone saying that wasn’t the question asked or criticizing the post as a weak attempt to shift the discussion. My response for now will be to try to re-direct back to the topic at hand. > > What he said. > > I will grant you that more things have been moving to the Pit, but in most cases this means the original question falls off the table. > > I did/do think that increased substance in Elections was worthy of a group huddle. If the group consensus is “let it ride,” that’s a fair answer. If things haven’t resolved in 6 months, perhaps Elections needed to be combined with the Pit and not GD. 😉 Off the rails? No. Harder to have a discussion? Yes. Will it blow over? Yes. When? I have no idea. Should something be changed? No. The Democrat collective is embareassed, angry, and feels the need to piss into the wind for a few more weeks. Embareassed because they chose to completely ignore the fact that there were more than one candidate (Hillary) in the 2016 general election and as a result Hillary didn’t receive enough votes. They’re angry because Trump beat them for the win, after the very best comedians, pollsters, news readers, actors, pundits, and fellow Democrat elective goodfellas convinced each other that a Trump win wasn’t possible. I expect to see a reduction in the number of anti-Trump responses after the Electoral College issues a decision. I expect to see a minor upswing when Trump is sworn in as POTUS, followed by a gradual reduction in Trump derangement syndrome. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/34 "2016-12-19T16:02:12Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Do we start to more strictly enforce rules about debate and discussion? I think this would require general consensus that rational debate on policies, issues, and politics is desirable. Possible next steps would be: rapid punting of any thread to the Pit if it descends into pointless, partisan bickering, mod notes that call out the behaviors, closing threads that are duplicative, and more guide rails about staying on topic. . You can count me in for “screw that” in regards to shipping stuff to the Pit. All that means if that if the majority of folks wanna walk the line up to asshole, then they “win” when the unliked minority can’t even try to make their points…because now that shit is in the pit and it just becomes a mud flinging pile on. Either mod the darn thread, or actually start handing out mod notes and warning. Shipping stuff to the pit is just intellectual and counterproductive laziness IMO. And PS. This is pretty much my opinion of shipping anything to the pit (baring of course some various uncommon but obvioulsy okay purmutations somebody will come along with shortly (I have a few myself)). The Dio Cycle of Life/Threads and the SDMB response is my cite. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/35 "2016-12-19T16:50:15Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The election is over. If it were up to me, I’d shut the forum down until 2020. Just off the top of my head, there’s the French presidential election this spring, where Le Pen is likely to be a contender. There are also German federal elections, which will likely be a plebiscite on Merkel’s immigration policies. The UK doesn’t have an election scheduled until 2020, but given how volatile the Brexit situation is, I wouldn’t be surprised at an early election. India will have a general election by 2019, as will Canada. And the crazy Aussies will have a general election the next time they have a leadership spill or snit or whatever they call it 😉 . By 2019 at the latest. So I don’t see any reason to close the Elections forum. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/36 "2016-12-19T16:59:05Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You can count me in for “screw that” in regards to shipping stuff to the Pit. > > All that means if that if the majority of folks wanna walk the line up to asshole, then they “win” when the unliked minority can’t even try to make their points…because now that shit is in the pit and it just becomes a mud flinging pile on. > > Either mod the darn thread, or actually start handing out mod notes and warning. > > Shipping stuff to the pit is just intellectual and counterproductive laziness IMO. > > And PS. This is pretty much my opinion of shipping anything to the pit (baring of course some various uncommon but obvioulsy okay purmutations somebody will come along with shortly (I have a few myself)). > > The Dio Cycle of Life/Threads and the SDMB response is my cite. I second this strongly. The Pit shouldn’t be the “People incapable of discussing election results calmly and/or coherently” forum. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/37 "2016-12-19T18:12:05Z")
Of threads started in the last month, 2 have been moved from Elections to the Pit. I think it was a lot worse right after the election, but folks seem to have gotten the message. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/38 "2016-12-19T18:26:46Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You can count me in for “screw that” in regards to shipping stuff to the Pit. > > All that means if that if the majority of folks wanna walk the line up to asshole, then they “win” when the unliked minority can’t even try to make their points…because now that shit is in the pit and it just becomes a mud flinging pile on. > > Either mod the darn thread, or actually start handing out mod notes and warning. > > Shipping stuff to the pit is just intellectual and counterproductive laziness IMO. I tend to look at the OP (original post) when evaluating if a move is in warranted. If the OP is primarily a rant then it’s not the majority of folks walking up to the line, but the basis for the thread from the get go. If subsequent participants are instigating then that would be moderated accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/39 "2016-12-19T20:40:04Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I tend to look at the OP (original post) when evaluating if a move is in warranted. If the OP is primarily a rant then it’s not the majority of folks walking up to the line, but the basis for the thread from the get go. If subsequent participants are instigating then that would be moderated accordingly. Why not just close it rather than pollute the Pit? It’s not like there’s any shortage of threads filled with people shrieking incoherently about the election one way or the other and it’s certainly not as if there’s even a hope of an original new rant. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974/40 "2016-12-19T20:47:32Z")
I’d prefer not to stifle discussion. If someone cared enough to start a new thread, they probably want to discuss something, or rant, or what have you. In my view, closing a thread sends a message that we don’t want that discussion to take place which isn’t the message I want to send. Even still, if we did lock the thread, it may simply be re-opened in a different location and on balance I think having a closed version and then encouraging people to restart the same thread somewhere else is less efficient when I can simply move it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-off-the-rails-in-elections-do-we-need-corrective-action/774974.md?page=3)