# Are we paying the price for such an inexperienced President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 29, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510 "2012-12-29T19:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/41 "2012-12-30T21:56:30Z")
It could also be that he hates his past, and hates all the privation that came with it, so much that he doesn’t want to associate himself with it even psychologically. There are rumors that he still has an inordinate appreciation for alcohol too, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/42 "2012-12-30T22:28:20Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What’s concerning is that Mitch McConnell and John Boehner aren’t really part of the “new radicals”, both have been in office a long time and aren’t plainly associated with religious fundamentalism or the Tea Party movement. Both are basically the kind of adult supervision that used to run the party while using the Falwell gang as vote-getting support without being controlled by them. And yet, both Boehner and McConnell are more or less scared of the radical wing, acquiesce to them at almost every turn, and basically have become totally subservient to them. > > Boehner especially, and I suspect many Democrats don’t know much of his life story, I’m shocked has been so willing to protect the tax rates of the super wealthy. Boehner grew up in a two bedroom house with him and his 11 siblings, his parents were so poor they did not even have a bed of their own and slept on a pull out couch. Boehner himself used to mop up the family owned bar as a child, and took seven years to finish college because he had to pay his own way by working multiple jobs (including one as a janitor) to pay for his tuition. Several of Boehner’s siblings are unemployed and most of them work middle class or lower blue collar jobs (one of his sisters is a waitress at the family bar, for example.) > > I don’t see how someone like that could legitimately be so out of touch with the vibe of the country that he thinks it wise to die on the cross of tax increases for people making over $400,000 a year (which was the number Obama offered earlier on as part of a comprehensive package, now most likely unavailable as the GOP has squandered the leverage they had at that point), how could someone from a family like that, not at least understand how this is going to play in the court of public opinion? > > I wager he does understand it, and is just simply afraid of the extremists in the party, he doesn’t think he can keep his Speakership without kow towing to them, but if he kow tows to them then he’s a a weak Speaker in the first place. Martin, that’s two outstanding posts in one thread. I’m getting a new appreciation for you as a poster and though we might rarely agree, I have a great deal of respect for your perspective. If only more Republicans were as capable of looking at their own party critically as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/43 "2012-12-30T22:55:53Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No, but in 2010 the Tea Party most certainly ran on a “stopping Obama’s agenda from destroying America” platform, for them compromise is impossible. So the President should have expected the GOP to have no compromise as their goal after the 2010 elections. Too bad they had decided on that course on January 20, 2009, in secret. And hearing rhetoric about going to Washington and standing on principles is nothing new in politics. Having them actually do it, with no regard for the damage they do to the country, is not normal. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I wager he does understand it, and is just simply afraid of the extremists in the party, he doesn’t think he can keep his Speakership without kow towing to them, but if he kow tows to them then he’s a a weak Speaker in the first place. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It could also be that he hates his past, and hates all the privation that came with it, so much that he doesn’t want to associate himself with it even psychologically. While the second is possible, and occurred to me as I read Martin’s post, I think it is more likely the first problem. He is desperate to hold onto the Speakership and is stalling until after the election in January. Of course, he will not have any more power after it then he does now. But he might be more willing to work with the Dems to actually get something done. I can hope anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/44 "2012-12-30T23:25:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I wager he does understand it, and is just simply afraid of the extremists in the party, he doesn’t think he can keep his Speakership without kow towing to them, but if he kow tows to them then he’s a a weak Speaker in the first place. It’s possible too that he may be the sort (and I know a few of them) who figures “If I made it out of poverty, then _anyone_ can. Anyone who does not make $400,000+ per year is simply lazy.” These are folks who figure that because _they_ accomplished something, it therefore means that they did it entirely through their own hard work, with no advantages or luck or timing involved. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/45 "2012-12-30T23:43:29Z")
Well, some good news. Mitch McConnell has gotten Biden involved. They have brokered deals in the past. They served together for decades. They were one of the few bipartisan Senators that we still had until Biden got the VP. > **[McConnell reaches out to Biden, Reid steps back](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/mcconnell-reaches-out-to-biden-reid-steps-back/)** > > On the Senate floor just after 2 p.m., Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said he had delivered Democrats with an offer at 7 p.m. Saturday, and had yet to hear back from Senate Democrats with a potential counter-offer. In hopes of... Hopefully they can come up with something. Pretty sad when old warhorses like McConnell and BIden have to clean up the mess left by the young blood in the chambers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/46 "2012-12-30T23:49:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Well, some good news. Mitch McConnell has gotten Biden involved. They have brokered deals in the past. They served together for decades. They were one of the few bipartisan Senators that we still had until Biden got the VP. > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/mcconnell-reaches-out-to-biden-reid-steps-back/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/mcconnell-reaches-out-to-biden-reid-steps-back/) > > Hopefully they can come up with something. Pretty sad when old warhorses like McConnell and BIden have to clean up the mess left by the young blood in the chambers. If they can convince the nutjobs and troglodytes of the House GOP caucus to vote for something the President supports, I’ll be very, very surprised. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/47 "2012-12-30T23:53:29Z")
McConnell doesn’t have to do a damn thing. The Senate already passed the extension for \<$250K back in July. If there are more items in it now, then all he has to do is not abuse the filibuster, just this once. And all Boehner has to do to get a majority of the House is let 25 of his non-crazies know they can join the Dems. The number will be even fewer in the next term, too. He needs to remember that he’s the Speaker of the entire House, not the GOP majority leader. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/48 "2012-12-31T00:28:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > McConnell doesn’t have to do a damn thing. The Senate already passed the extension for \<$250K back in July. If there are more items in it now, then all he has to do is not abuse the filibuster, just this once. > > And all Boehner has to do to get a majority of the House is let 25 of his non-crazies know they can join the Dems. The number will be even fewer in the next term, too. He needs to remember that he’s the Speaker of the entire House, not the GOP majority leader. There’s a bit of a procedural or tradition hurdle there. Since Newt Gingrich (formalized by Dennis Hastert) GOP Speakers have followed a rule by which they will not allow a vote to come to the floor unless a majority of the majority is going to vote for it. So unless Boehner is willing to break with the “Hastert Rule”, which could have serious political consequences for him, what he’s going to want to do is get at least 121 GOP congressmen on board. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/49 "2012-12-31T00:55:35Z")
In ordinary circumstances, yes. Right after an election when his party got told pretty strongly by We the People to cut the shit, and when the price for obstruction-as-usual is as obviously high as it is, he’s going to have to give. Another option is for 25 GOP sanes to join in the discharge petition Pelosi has in process, to force the Senate bill to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/50 "2012-12-31T01:06:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > In ordinary circumstances, yes. Right after an election when his party got told pretty strongly by We the People to cut the shit, and when the price for obstruction-as-usual is as obviously high as it is, he’s going to have to give. > > Another option is for 25 GOP sanes to join in the discharge petition Pelosi has in process, to force the Senate bill to the floor. Discharge petitions almost always fail though, because the political pressure to not sign them when you’re in the majority is immense. In the past breaking ranks like that has cost people all of their committee positions and basically any standing in the party. In today’s political climate it’d also get you a tea party primary challenger. I suspect the most likely scenario is Boehner can wrangle 121 votes, or a few less in the 113th Congress, and they pass the Senate bill. If that doesn’t happen, I think Boehner would call a vote and break the Hastert rule before he’d let a discharge petition go through. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/51 "2012-12-31T01:08:57Z")
We don’t know for sure how many GOP are really unwilling to compromise. We know Boehner lost at least 23 votes from his own caucus for his “Plan B” but I think he had to have been **reasonably close** , because otherwise it’d be a ridiculously stupid political move to have even tried that Plan B shenanigan. Now, like him or hate him I find it hard to believe someone who has navigated the House for almost 20 years and risen to the Speakership could be that far off. So if he say, lost 30-35 votes for Plan B, he might still be able to get 121 for whatever the Senate passes now that the cliff is “imminent” and anyone who votes for it can try and cover themselves with the political necessity argument. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/52 "2012-12-31T01:26:03Z")
Looks like we’ve avoided $7 milk. They’re making progress. I bet the take out calls to the closest Capital location of Domino’s Pizza are through the roof tonight. 😉 Get er done boys. Work out that budget deal over slices of Domino’s meat lovers. > **['Dairy cliff' may be avoided, for a year at least](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/dairy-cliff-may-be-avoided-year-least-1C7753064)** > [@](#): > > Farm-state lawmakers have agreed to a one-year extension of the expiring U.S. farm bill that, if enacted, would head off a possible doubling of retail milk prices to $7.00 or more a gallon in 2013. > > The compromise measure resulted from bipartisan discussions in the House of Representatives’ Agriculture Committee and talks with colleagues in the U.S. Senate, Frank Lucas of Oklahoma, the House panel’s chairman, said in a statement Sunday. > > “It is not perfect - no compromise ever is - but it is my sincere hope that it will pass the House and Senate and be signed by the President by January 1,” Lucas, a Republican, said. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/53 "2012-12-31T02:28:53Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > But he had no way to know how serious they were before they showed their hand. They “showed their hand” during the Bush II Presidency. Even as far back as then they demonstrated no concern for the country and defined “compromise” as them getting everything and the Democrats getting nothing. Even right after 9-11 when the Democrats were thinking of terms of “it’s an emergency, we should be bipartisan for the good of the country”, the Republicans thought about nothing but taking advantage of that to grab everything they could and give nothing back in return. Plus, Obama is black; for that reason alone he should have expected nothing but mindless hatred and opposition from the party that has spent decades as the party of white racism. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/54 "2012-12-31T03:22:03Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I suspect the most likely scenario is Boehner can wrangle 121 votes, or a few less in the 113th Congress, and they pass the Senate bill. If that doesn’t happen, I think Boehner would call a vote and break the Hastert rule before he’d let a discharge petition go through. I hope you are right about him breaking the Hastert rule, but I am not that optimistic. It would probably lead to him getting primaried from the right in 2014, which I doubt he wants to go through. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Looks like we’ve avoided $7 milk. They’re making progress. I bet the take out calls to the closest Capital location of Domino’s Pizza are through the roof tonight. 😉 Get er done boys. Work out that budget deal over slices of Domino’s meat lovers. > > ['Dairy cliff' may be avoided, for a year at least](http://www.nbcnews.com/business/dairy-cliff-may-be-avoided-year-least-1C7753064) Don’t count your chickens. They have worked out a compromise, but that is not a word to bring joy to the hearts of anyone that needs something voted on in the House these days. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They “showed their hand” during the Bush II Presidency. Even as far back as then they demonstrated no concern for the country and defined “compromise” as them getting everything and the Democrats getting nothing. Even right after 9-11 when the Democrats were thinking of terms of “it’s an emergency, we should be bipartisan for the good of the country”, the Republicans thought about nothing but taking advantage of that to grab everything they could and give nothing back in return. Plus, Obama is black; for that reason alone he should have expected nothing but mindless hatred and opposition from the party that has spent decades as the party of white racism. I’m sorry, I did not realize that we were talking about the Omniscient Obama, who would of course know exactly what the GOP motivations are and how the GOP would react to everything. I was talking about the human Obama who would actually have to live and experience things in order to learn them. Since I am not familiar with the Omniscient Obama, I will defer to your expertise on him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/55 "2012-12-31T03:27:36Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > I’m sorry, I did not realize that we were talking about the Omniscient Obama, who would of course know exactly what the GOP motivations are and how the GOP would react to everything. It didn’t require omniscience to see what would happen. It was obvious to _me_ from the start and I’m not even a professional politician like Obama, much less omniscient. All it required was recognizing past Republican behavior and assuming that they’d keep on acting like they had been. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/56 "2012-12-31T08:20:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It didn’t require omniscience to see what would happen. It was obvious to _me_ from the start and I’m not even a professional politician like Obama, much less omniscient. All it required was recognizing past Republican behavior and assuming that they’d keep on acting like they had been. Right after 9/11 I saw both parties reacting in ways I didn’t like, and I let them know that. I certainly didn’t see the GOP running roughshod over all the Democrats, since quite a few Democrats were right there with them. And they were not adverse to compromise in the later year of W’s presidency, since they were able to work with the Democrats that were in control of Congress. So apparently you were able to see things that professional politicians couldn’t a decade ago. It seems to me you are still blaming him for not realizing his opponents had stopped behaving rationally. But the biggest problem I have with your characterization of the entire GOP as being the party of white racism. There are certainly plenty of racists in the GOP, but I have known more people that aren’t then that are. And I have met plenty of people on the left that are also racists. That broad characterization tells me you are not being rational about what you are saying, you are letting your own ideologies color your perceptions. Not unusual on either side these days unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/57 "2012-12-31T08:42:24Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > But the biggest problem I have with your characterization of the entire GOP as being the party of white racism. There are certainly plenty of racists in the GOP, but I have known more people that aren’t then that are. And I have met plenty of people on the left that are also racists. That broad characterization tells me you are not being rational about what you are saying, you are letting your own ideologies color your perceptions. No, it means I’m acknowledging reality. The Republicans have been recruiting and catering to white racists in America for decades as a matter of [policy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy). Individual Democrats are racist, but appealing to racism is not a deliberate Democratic policy; it is of the Republicans. This is quite obvious and well known despite periodic attempts like yours to create a false equivalence between the parties, which is why the Republicans have effectively zero support from black people and real low support from _anyone_ who isn’t white. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/58 "2012-12-31T09:16:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, it means I’m acknowledging reality. The Republicans have been recruiting and catering to white racists in America for decades as a matter of [policy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy). Individual Democrats are racist, but appealing to racism is not a deliberate Democratic policy; it is of the Republicans. > > This is quite obvious and well known despite periodic attempts like yours to create a false equivalence between the parties, which is why the Republicans have effectively zero support from black people and real low support from _anyone_ who isn’t white. Yes, the GOP has been appealing to the southern white vote since the 60s, using racial issues to appeal to them. But you are effectively calling people like **Martin Hyde** and many others racists because they are in the GOP. Not because of their personal beliefs or actions. Can’t imagine why I find that distasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/59 "2012-12-31T09:42:15Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > But you are effectively calling people like **Martin Hyde** and many others racists because they are in the GOP. Not because of their personal beliefs or actions. If they are members of and vote for the Republicans they are supporting racism regardless of their intentions or personal feelings on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2012, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510/60 "2012-12-31T10:06:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Well, some good news. Mitch McConnell has gotten Biden involved. They have brokered deals in the past. They served together for decades. They were one of the few bipartisan Senators that we still had until Biden got the VP. > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/mcconnell-reaches-out-to-biden-reid-steps-back/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/12/30/mcconnell-reaches-out-to-biden-reid-steps-back/) > > Hopefully they can come up with something. Pretty sad when old warhorses like McConnell and BIden have to clean up the mess left by the young blood in the chambers. I originally saw [this article](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/top-republican-senator-urges-biden-break-fiscal-cliff-194733815--politics.html) on the subject: > [@](#): > > Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell urged Vice President Joe Biden on Sunday to jump into “fiscal cliff” talks in hopes of breaking an impasse that threatens Americans with sharply higher income taxes come January 1. > > In a brief speech on the Senate floor, McConnell complained that Democrats had not yet placed a counter-offer to a new Republican proposal, delivered at 7 pm on Saturday, “despite the obvious time crunch.” > > “I’m concerned about the lack of urgency here,” the Kentucky lawmaker said. “I think we all know we’re running out of time.” Personally, I laughed my ass off. McConnell delivers an offer at 7:00 p.m. on December 29th (the next day being a Sunday, no less) and criticizes the other side for a lack of urgency. Wow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-paying-the-price-for-such-an-inexperienced-president/645510.md?page=4)