# Are We the Same Person from Moment to Moment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821 "2009-08-26T21:25:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/21 "2009-08-27T05:18:16Z")
[Here’s](http://www.strange-loops.com/blog/?p=23) a source for that quote I failed miserably to paraphrase: “So what is this mind of ours: what are these atoms with consciousness? Last week’s potatoes! They now can remember what was going on in my mind a year ago — a mind which has long ago been replaced. To note that the thing I call my individuality is only a pattern or dance, that is what it means when one discovers how long it takes for the atoms of my brain to be replaced by other atoms. The atoms come into my brain, dance a dance, and then go out — there are always new atoms, but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday.” –Richard Feynman (The Value of Science) Also from that site (not really a cite, since it’s just the first blog I found with the quote): > [@](#): > > Back in 1953, researchers at the Smithsonian Institution concluded from radio isotope tracings of chemicals entering and leaving the body that we replace around 98% of our bodies’ atoms every year or so. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/22 "2009-08-27T05:20:35Z")
According to [Heraclitus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclitus), “You cannot step twice into the same river.” Of course, what he meant was “You cannot step \*\*\*once \*\*\*into the same river.” ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/23 "2009-08-27T05:21:39Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > The inspiration for this question came from a very old memory of mine. I hardly remember much before the age of 5. But I do have a few fragments of memory from this time. One particular memory is when I am about 2 or 3. Basically I am in a shopping mall with my mother and her brother’s wife, my aunt. I don’t remember too much. But I seem to recall we did alot of walking. > > Now this memory is obviously unique to me. No one would deny that it is _my_ memory. But here is where it gets very philosophical: _Am I the same person I was then?_ And FYI, I define being the same person as having at least most of the same brain material I had then, let’s say at least 51%. (I don’t know how the rest of you feel, but I believe our humanity lies in our brain. After all, if it were possible to transplant our brain into another body, we’d be the same person–right?) > > And as long as I am asking the question, let me throw in _“Are we the same person from moment to moment?”_ for good measure. (Please keep in mind the criteria I gave [same brain], but if you must, include your own too.) > > Thank you in advance to all who reply:) The brain changes connections, some old some new. To use a cimbersome example: I played trumpet from the time I was a child until well after college. To this day, I can pick up a trumpet and sight read and play music. I don’t think about it, it goes from the score to the instrument. I may have to practice difficult parts but the notes nor the timing is never what are the problem. As an adult, I taught myself to play the flute. But I can’t sight read like I can with the trumpet. When I attempt to play scored music, my brain says “C” (Ok, fingers do a “C”) “Bb” (OK fingers, do a Bb). OTOH, I was never able to improvise on the trumpet, but I can wail on the flute. I can “instinctively” detect the key and even key changes and play counter melodies on the fly. Different pathways, different results. Your brain constantly adjusts itself and develops pathways that mean you aren’t even the same person from minute to minute. Have you even had a sea change of your world view based on a reading or a speech? You aren’t the same. I will tell you what does not change (for the most part): your value system. Your sense of right and wrong is what you hold onto for a sense of self. Not the funky gray areas (“is it OK to kill someone that will kill someone else?”) but the basic underlying values. Those are ingrained and are, more than anything else, what make you YOU. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/24 "2009-08-27T05:23:34Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.strange-loops.com/blog/?p=23) a source for that quote I failed miserably to paraphrase: > > “So what is this mind of ours: what are these atoms with consciousness? Last week’s potatoes! They now can remember what was going on in my mind a year ago — a mind which has long ago been replaced. To note that the thing I call my individuality is only a pattern or dance, that is what it means when one discovers how long it takes for the atoms of my brain to be replaced by other atoms. The atoms come into my brain, dance a dance, and then go out — there are always new atoms, but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday.” > –Richard Feynman (The Value of Science) > > Also from that site (not really a cite, since it’s just the first blog I found with the quote): > > > [@](#): > > > > Back in 1953, researchers at the Smithsonian Institution concluded from radio isotope tracings of chemicals entering and leaving the body that we replace around 98% of our bodies’ atoms every year or so. That explains 1986. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/25 "2009-08-27T05:24:23Z")
It’s funny how a brain, that seems so material, can generate such an enigmatic result. Don’t get hung up on the materialistic aspect of the brain. Whatever we are, we are a pattern that emerges from it. Like music from a violin, our brain is the instrument, but “we” are the song. For some damn reason, that “song” is _aware._ I believe the answer to the OP’s question is both yes, and no, depending on how you look at it. I would like to believe the ‘yes’ trumps the ‘no’, but who can be sure? And does it really matter? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/26 "2009-08-27T05:28:42Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > [“So what is this mind of ours: what are these atoms with consciousness? Last week’s potatoes! They now can remember what was going on in my mind a year ago — a mind which has long ago been replaced. To note that the thing I call my individuality is only a pattern or dance, that is what it means when one discovers how long it takes for the atoms of my brain to be replaced by other atoms. The atoms come into my brain, dance a dance, and then go out — there are always new atoms, but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday.” The same sort of insight made me start thinking in [URL=“[If reincarnation were true, would you care ? - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=511458)”]another thread]([Last Week’s Potatoes | Strange Loops](http://www.strange-loops.com/blog/?p=23)): > [@If reincarnation were true, would you care ?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-reincarnation-were-true-would-you-care/490538/31): > > I keep thinking of a rock in a stream, positioned such that the water flowing over it creates a certain pattern of whorls and eddies. The stream dries out, and the rock is left high and dry. Then it rains, the water flows over it again, and the pattern of whorls and eddies returns. > > Where did the pattern go while the stream was dry? Are the patterns you saw before and after the drought the same “thing”? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/27 "2009-08-27T05:50:02Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Are We the Same Person from Moment to Moment? Yes. Would we react the same way to the same stimulus from day to day? Probably, but maybe not. We aren’t robots and our experiences inform but don’t deny us their value. And this is without including in our reasoning the Elephant in the Room, Mr Id, as exemplified by Peter Griffin. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo\_Pin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mojo\_Pin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo_Pin)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/28 "2009-08-27T06:31:40Z")
**No** , we aren’t the same person moment to moment. We are a chain of identities linked together from birth to death, connected only by physical continuity and an illusion of “personal identity”. This is the definitive answer. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/29 "2009-08-27T16:45:00Z")
A neurologist on _NOVA ScienceNow_ a day or two ago said that every new memory leaves a _physical_ change in the brain. So, he said, “If you learned something today, you don’t have the same brain you had this morning.” If that’s true, then only those who refuse to learn are the same persons, moment to moment. That’s why I feel more like I do now than…Hey! Wait a minute. Who did I say I was, again? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/30 "2009-08-27T18:40:27Z")
> [@Tristram Shandy](#): > > That is a child actor, pretending to be me. I’ll be able to play myself later. .. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/31 "2009-08-27T19:23:06Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > Brain neurons, like the egg cells in a woman’s ovaries, are finite at birth and do not multiply or divide like regular cells, they aren’t replaced when they die off. That’s why people inevitably have trouble remembering things as they age, in addition to…umm, forgot what I was gonna say next. This was a common theory, but as far as I know, it’s been shown to be false (at least in particular areas of the brain) [cite](http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/99/q4/1014-brain.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Maia\_s\_Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Maia\_s\_Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maia_s_Well)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/32 "2009-08-27T21:39:14Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > This was a common theory, but as far as I know, it’s been shown to be false (at least in particular areas of the brain) [cite](http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/99/q4/1014-brain.htm) Having brain issues myself, I found that cite encouraging. Thanks for posting it! ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821/33 "2009-08-27T23:25:51Z")
> [@Maia\_s\_Well](#): > > Having brain issues myself, I found that cite encouraging. > > Thanks for posting it! You’re welcome, and good luck with your brain (I hope that doesn’t sound sarcastic). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-the-same-person-from-moment-to-moment/507821.md?page=1)