# Are we worried about the Large Hadron Collider being turned on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441 "2008-09-07T02:45:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/61 "2008-09-08T04:19:46Z")
> [@Hogwash](#): > > If the actual scientists that designed, built and will activate the thing aren’t worried about it, that’s good enough for me. I know that’s not a fashionable viewpoint, what with everyone being an expert on everything these days. Weirdly, smart people still do mind-bogglingly dumb things, even mind-bogglingly dumb scientific experiments, that kill people. [Tickling the Dragon’s Tail](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_K._Daghlian,_Jr.) [Hey, that sucked – let’s do that again!](http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent1/?file=cw_nuclear_slotin) Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/62 "2008-09-08T04:33:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The scientists don’t have a direct, focused, specific goal or expectation of what they’re going to find, do they? I have hope that in one of these threads you will eventually fucking _read_ one of the many, many informative links that has been provided to you so you will have a vague grasp of this machine and how it works and why it was built and what the scientists expect from it, instead of continuing to twitter on in embarrassingly uninformed ignorance. Also, I have hope that Scarlett Johansson might somebody suck my cock. I’m honestly not sure which is the likelier scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/63 "2008-09-08T04:34:55Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > The whole point of the machine is to recreate the conditions close to the Big Bang, so that scientists can directly observe what happened during the first few billionths of a second during the creation of the universe. I don’t care who you are, that’s exciting stuff. Not to me. The final minute of a basketball game with a tied score is exciting stuff. Fucking two girls at the same time is exciting stuff. Anything that occurs in a few billionths of a second, cannot possibly be exciting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/64 "2008-09-08T04:35:15Z")
[Only if you’re a twat.](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/05/scilhc105.xml) > [@](#): > > Such is the angst that the American Nobel prize winning physicist Frank Wilczek of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology has even had death threats, said Prof Brian Cox of Manchester University, adding: “Anyone who thinks the LHC will destroy the world is a t—.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/65 "2008-09-08T04:43:57Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I have hope that in one of these threads you will eventually fucking _read_ one of the many, many informative links that has been provided to you so you will have a vague grasp of this machine and how it works and why it was built and what the scientists expect from it, instead of continuing to twitter on in embarrassingly uninformed ignorance. > > Also, I have hope that Scarlett Johansson might somebody suck my cock. > > I’m honestly not sure which is the likelier scenario. Please try to remember which forum you are posting in. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/66 "2008-09-08T04:52:15Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I have hope that in one of these threads you will eventually fucking _read_ one of the many, many informative links that has been provided to you so you will have a vague grasp of this machine and how it works and why it was built and what the scientists expect from it… I have, and it doesn’t seem like anything more than alchemy and magical philosophizing, with a big fancy word stuck on top of it and six billion dollars underneath it. Of course, then all of you geniuses can tell me I just don’t understand it, and you can feel smugly superior to me…fine. If you get some kind of ego boost out of it, that’s aces. More power to you. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/67 "2008-09-08T04:55:17Z")
I’m very slightly nervous about it. But I’m more worried about the remote possiblity that the bathtub might fall through the floor while I’m taking a shower. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/68 "2008-09-08T04:55:57Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Weirdly, smart people still do mind-bogglingly dumb things, even mind-bogglingly dumb scientific experiments, that kill people. That, or cause them to give birth to children with no legs and arms. (Thalidomide) As if scientists are somehow immune to making colossal fuck-ups and destroying people’s lives… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/69 "2008-09-08T05:17:36Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > That, or cause them to give birth to children with no legs and arms. > > (Thalidomide) > > As if scientists are somehow immune to making colossal fuck-ups and destroying people’s lives… I see. This is a _pitting_, not a poll. Very well-moving thread from IMHO to The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/70 "2008-09-08T05:21:51Z")
Excuse me? A pitting? Where did you get that from? And is there a rule that every thread in IMHO has to be a poll? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/71 "2008-09-08T05:25:50Z")
On second thought, I’m moving it back. No reason to let ignorance hijack this thread. If you’ve posted to this poll, please move one and make room for the next poster. If you wish to discuss the supposed apocalypse this event will cause, please start a thread in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![luvtinayothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@luvtinayothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvtinayothers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/72 "2008-09-08T05:53:02Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Also I should add that I think the only reason there isn’t a public outcry about this is because most people don’t know about it. If this were widely publicized in the news, there would be a huge movement against it, with protests from environmental groups and possibly even people trying to sabotage the LHC by destroying parts of the machinery. It’s definately widely publicized in the press. I hear about it every day. The reason why there is isn’t a public outcry is that most people are smart enough to know that _nothing’s going to happen_. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ferris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ferris/32/11573_2.png) [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/73 "2008-09-08T06:16:26Z")
I’m mostly worried about the fact that **‘Large Hadron Collider’** is an anagram of: **’Hello, a cladding error…’** \ as well as: **’A charred noodle grill’** \ and of course: **’A herring called Drool’**. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/74 "2008-09-08T11:36:37Z")
A question : amongst people making fun of \*\* Argent towers \*\*, and more importantly explaining him that there isn’t any risk, how many have a clear understanding of the risks mentioned, and of the reasons why these supposed risks aren’t worth worrying about? I don’t ask for a perfect, high-level physicist like understanding, but simply a clear comprehension of the arguments used : how/why strange matter/black holes would be created, basically, and why it couldn’t/wouldn’t pose a risk. How many even have a clue about what strange matter could be, for instance? Also, can the same give me (no looking up just before responding, since you have an opinion, I must assume you already know) some details about the risk assessment that has been done (by whom, what kind of risk has been studied, independence between whoever was in charge of risk assessment and whoever is running the LHC, …)? I mean, since we’re talking about a potential world destruction, obviously even the most minuscule risk must have been studied carefully, and dismissed as totally not-existent without the shadow of a doubt, right? And since most seem to think that being worried over it is just ludicrous, those same persons must have a clear idea of the reason why they are sure it has been done, right? So, they must know what issues we are talking about and how these issues have been addressed. I’m not asking you to tell me about these risk/risk assessment, simply to tell me whether or not you could answer these questions. So, please, answer. I’m waiting for the honest responses of people who have participated in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/75 "2008-09-08T12:00:26Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It seems like it. The scientists don’t have a direct, focused, specific goal or expectation of what they’re going to find, do they? It’s basically just, “let’s see what happens here.” Dude, maybe turning it on will make a magical gun-tree grow in your yard. I mean we’ve had cosmic rays bombard the Earth for millions of years, and it hasn’t happened yet, but maybe this time. You should be all for them turning it on. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/76 "2008-09-08T12:45:35Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I don’t ask for a perfect, high-level physicist like understanding, but simply a clear comprehension of the arguments used : how/why strange matter/black holes would be created, basically, and why it couldn’t/wouldn’t pose a risk. The problem with that is that to really understand any of those questions, you’d have to acquire a ‘high-level physicist like’ understanding – mBH formation, for instance, can only happen if there exist so-called ‘large’ (on the order of sub-millimetre) extra dimensions, which would only be accessible to gravity, explaining its relative weakness when compared to the other fundamental forces. This is tied in with attempts to find a quantum theory of gravity, which is kinda hard pretty much exactly because gravity is so weak; if it only appeared weak because of sorta ‘dissipating’ into the extra dimensions, that task would become much easier. Strange matter is essentially a form of quark matter that contains strange quarks (strangeness, here, being a quark flavour, like the more familiar up and down that make up protons and neutrons and thus all ordinary or ‘nuclear’ matter); it’s been hypothesized that such matter would be more stable than ordinary nuclear matter, meaning that all ordinary matter is actually only a metastable state of matter which eventually will decay into strange matter (which sounds counterintuitive at first, since the up and down quarks that make up normal matter are the lightest members of the quark family, and thus any composite of up, down and strange quarks ought to be able to decay into a lower energy state made up of only up and down quarks; however, due to binding energy mass defects, it might be the case that you can form stable ‘nuclei’ made up of strange particles (i.e. particles that contain one or more strange quarks), which then would be more stable than their up/down quark counterparts). The fear is, now, that such ‘strangelets’, if they indeed are stable, might facilitate the conversion of ordinary matter into strange matter, making ‘ordinary’ chemical (i.e. chemistry as we know it) reactions, and thus, life, impossible. However, it’s strongly indicated that such strangelets would have a positive electromagnetic charge, causing them to be repelled by ordinary matter (as in fact normal matter is repelled by normal matter as well, prohibiting spontaneous fusion). [QUOTE=clairobscur] Also, can the same give me (no looking up just before responding, since you have an opinion, I must assume you already know) some details about the risk assessment that has been done (by whom, what kind of risk has been studied, independence between whoever was in charge of risk assessment and whoever is running the LHC, …)? [/QUOTE] There’s in fact been numerous risk assessments, because these same concerns crop up every time a new collider is built – in fact, I believe that some of the same people who tried to get the RHIC (Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider) shut down are now working to prevent the activation of the LHC for exactly the same fears and concerns that turned out to be bogus last time. If anybody’s interested, I believe [this](http://arxiv.org/abs/0806.3414v1) is the latest paper that addresses the supposed risks associated with the operation of the LHC; topics are the nucleation of a lower-energy vacuum bubble, creation of magnetic monopoles, micro black holes and strangelets. They make numerous very convincing arguments why none of those pose a genuine risk, but the most important one, which should end all speculation for everybody devoting more than two brain cells to these matters, which has been repeated over and over again without even an attempt at refutation is that _the same collisions taking place at the LHC take place in nature all the time, and even with considerably higher energies, and yet – We. Are. Still. Here._ [QUOTE=clairobscur] I mean, since we’re talking about a potential world destruction, [/QUOTE] That’s just the thing – we aren’t talking about a potential world destruction any more than we’re talking about the world potentially turning into a giant strawberry shortcake. For both, there may well be a nonzero probability (actually, there likely is one, at any given instance, regardless of our meddling), but I haven’t seen anybody stockpiling frosting in preparation for an armageddon of strawberry-y goodness. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/77 "2008-09-08T13:14:56Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > That’s just the thing – we aren’t talking about a potential world destruction any more than we’re talking about the world potentially turning into a giant strawberry shortcake. For both, there may well be a nonzero probability (actually, there likely is one, at any given instance, regardless of our meddling). Hmm… I see, so it’s a matter of extremely high improbabilities – I say we add a really hot cup of tea and we may have a useful technology here. (the preceeding was a tribute to all the “42” answers so far) Not worried. More worried about having to speak in public about the device and flubbing “Hadron”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/78 "2008-09-08T13:53:17Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > That’s just the thing – we aren’t talking about a potential world destruction any more than we’re talking about the world potentially turning into a giant strawberry shortcake. For both, there may well be a nonzero probability (actually, there likely is one, at any given instance, regardless of our meddling), but I haven’t seen anybody stockpiling frosting in preparation for an armageddon of strawberry-y goodness. Shit! i didn’t even consider _that_ possibility. I am heading to the store to stock up on candy sprinkles and cans of instant frosting(there will be no time to mix it from scratch!) ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/79 "2008-09-08T14:57:14Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > [In your thread on this topic last week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481509), you may have overlooked the [question from **Nancarrow** about why you’re willing to cherry-pick what physics you believe in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10150443&postcount=45). Got an answer for why you think they’ll be created but not wink out like they always do? Doesn’t look like he has. But maybe a slightly bigger font will help. Yoo-hoo! Argent Towers! > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > [In your thread on this topic last week](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481509), you may have overlooked the [question from **Nancarrow** about why you’re willing to cherry-pick what physics you believe in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10150443&postcount=45). Got an answer for why you think they’ll be created but not wink out like they always do? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441/80 "2008-09-08T16:51:07Z")
Thanks, **Half Man** ; that goes a long way to answering my questions, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-worried-about-the-large-hadron-collider-being-turned-on/462441.md?page=5)