# Are we/you in the kingdom of the blind? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517 "2011-12-08T16:01:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/101 "2011-12-09T17:41:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > When discussing the nature of reality, two points are often made: > > 1. We cannot be sure that what we see is real (in the sense that we might be living in the matrix or whatever). > 2. Therefore, it’s irrational to behave as though everything around us is real. > > But point 2 doesn’t follow; it _does_ make sense to behave as though what is around us is real, without being sure that that is the case. > > I think that’s what **jackdavinci** was saying and I agree with that. > (I can give a full argument for why I hold that position, but I just want to give a short response for now :)) Instead of “Hi, **Opal**!” I’d like to add a third point: 1. Thus, it’s irrational to behave as though everyone around us is real. Does point 3 follow? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/102 "2011-12-09T18:15:06Z")
> [@hoenikker](#): > > Are you too dim to understand that it’s a joke? Guess what, that was a joke too. Thanks for playing 😛 Right. Like the FUNNY kind…but different. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/103 "2011-12-09T18:34:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Hehe > > 1. We cannot be sure that what we see is real (in the sense that we might be living in the matrix or whatever). > 2. Therefore, it’s irrational to behave as though everything around us is real. No no no! It’s rational to behave as though everything around us is real AND rational to behave as though everything around us is fake AS LONG AS YOU DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME AND NEVER ASK ANYONE WHICH VERSION IS TRUE! And everybody who is really reading this thread knows the whole thing is a recursive joke anyway. (Find the patterns and find the people generating the patterns recursively…) Jesus Christ on a pogo stick :o ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/104 "2011-12-09T18:36:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Right. Like the FUNNY kind…but different. Hah, like Steve Jobs right? Think “different”? What exactly did you mean by different and how recursively did you mean it? How funny does something get before it becomes embarrassing? Sorry Truman, we voted and you lost this part of the game :o Does that mean anything to you? It might eventually, who knows? Have you ever read anything by Kurt Vonnegut? P.S. Steve Jobs and Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Trust me on that one ⭕o:o No wait, forget I ever said that. ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/105 "2011-12-09T18:49:36Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Pretty much everyone who has been enlightened has said that everyone already is enlightened, they just aren’t in a constant state of awareness about it. > > I’ve had moments of clarity and during these, I’ve understood that and come to the same conclusion. Buddha claims that the highest thing to know is that you don’t know and therefore you’re enlightened. But wait, what was enlightenment again and how do you know it? Is thinking like this fun for you or does it make your head hurt? Would I believe you if you told me you were enlightened? Why or why not? Try harder please 😛 ---
**Author:** ![hoenikker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoenikker/32/7296_2.png) [@hoenikker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoenikker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/106 "2011-12-09T18:55:26Z")
Another shout-out to **Kozmik** : I hope you stay with this thread as long as possible. We can probably set a record or something if we try hard enough. Or can we? I’m not sure, but I want to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517/107 "2011-12-09T19:20:52Z")
Since the OP is advertising the fact that this thread is a joke and a waste of time, I’m closing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-we-you-in-the-kingdom-of-the-blind/605517.md?page=5)