# Are women attracted to overly muscular men? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 6, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183 "2015-09-06T16:17:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/41 "2015-09-07T18:00:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Those tend to be a little harder to pick out of the crowd, though. Pretty sure it’s a filter option on most dating websites now. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/42 "2015-09-07T21:19:20Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > _Some_ women are attracted to muscular men. _Some_ women are attracted to waifish men. _Some_ women are attracted to average men. _Some_ women are attracted to wiry men. [Seinfeld]“Who Aaaaaaaah dese people…?”[/Seinfeld] 😃 Its a Big world, there’s someone for everybody, and They’ll let You know. _rinse_ _repeat_ ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/43 "2015-09-07T22:00:49Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > These are not benign compounds. Compared to what. I have heard it argued that while steroids carry risks, the actual chances are low. Your own numbers show that - a mere 5% of the men experiencing these episodes, and these are people using **illegal** drugs and their own dosing regimens. If you visit AAS forums, people talk routinely about using steroids that were only tested on animals as they provide superior results. They talk about all kinds of dosing levels, including some that are probably massive overdoses as far as it goes. Anyways, I’ve heard convincing arguments that if the steroids are human grade, given by qualified medical personal, and the doses are reasonable though high (one study it was 600 mg/week of test enanthate), the risks are low. More importantly, the argument is that they are favorable to the other accepted method of improving appearance, cosmetic surgery. It’s possible and legal for a plastic surgeon to mimic the effect of large muscles and low BMI with liposuction and silicon muscle implants. This is a series of major surgeries that carry substantial risks of infection and death. Some roid rage - that I haven’t seen any studies where it has been reproduced empirically and using external observers, not self reporting - is probably lower risk. I ain’t saying we should all be juicing, or it’s as low risk as taking aspirin. I’m saying it fits the narrative we’ve described in earlier threads. The number of available women of breeding age who have low bmi is a much small portion of the population than it was in 1970 or 1950. Also, we can’t all be pediatricians with comfortable six figure incomes - there are only so many slots in jobs like that, and we aren’t all intelligent enough to even pass the exams required. So young men have to do what it takes to win over the limited pool of attractive women, and taking steroids sounds like a reasonably low risk and effective option. Probably safer than working an oil rig job to impress the same women with money… ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/44 "2015-09-07T22:10:21Z")
Steroids? Sounds like fun, where do I sign up? Ok, I’m not on the prowl; I’m happily married. But I ha ve this year begun to see how big I can get since I couldn’t put on weight when I was young and I haven’t really tried since. And I’m making progress, but dont think it hasn’t crossed my mind. From what I have found, the dangers of legend just aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/45 "2015-09-07T22:11:02Z")
**Habeed** , you do know what steroids do to the size of your willy, right? If not, feel free to juice up. I’ll be over here, so I can point and laugh later. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/46 "2015-09-07T22:12:18Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > **Habeed** , you do know what steroids do to the size of your willy, right? It doesn’t shrink your willy, it turns your nuts into raisins. That’s not as bad. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/47 "2015-09-07T22:19:08Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > It doesn’t shrink your willy, it turns your nuts into raisins. That’s not as bad. Right, I see. Well, you’re the expert, so I’ll take your word for it. I guess you’ll have to decide for yourself whether it’s a trade-off you’re willing to make. (I still get to point and laugh, right?) ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/48 "2015-09-07T22:26:53Z")
This is per Jose Canseco’s book, “juiced”, where he used the roids to great personal and career success by cheating at professional sports. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/49 "2015-09-07T22:47:05Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Compared to what. I have heard it argued that while steroids carry risks, the actual chances are low. Your own numbers show that - a mere 5% of the men experiencing these episodes … 5% for just the significant neuropsychiatric side effects is not “low” to me. Plus there are a host of other side effects. > [@](#): > > … Anyways, I’ve heard convincing arguments that if … Nice that there is stuff you have heard. Come back when you have more than bro-chatter. … Or with cookies. Gooey chocolate chip ones. > [@](#): > > … More importantly, the argument is that they are favorable to the other accepted method of improving appearance, cosmetic surgery. … So young men have to do what it takes to win over the limited pool of attractive women, and taking steroids sounds like a reasonably low risk and effective option. Probably safer than working an oil rig job to impress the same women with money… Okay, let’s ignore that one of the lesser side effects is bad acne, which does not exactly help attractiveness to the opposite sex. And raisins for testes … well if they’ve gotten close enough to know the decision is likely already made. 🙂 More to the point however is that the perception that hypermuscularity increases attractiveness to potential female partners is, based both on actual data (see my cite above) and anecdotally here, more a male false belief than reality. Moderate exercise and decent nutrition habits are likely enough to have a body shape attractive to many women. After that … well I am no expert, been married to the same woman for more years of my life than I have not and by a decent margin at this point … but my impression is that a decent sense of humor, demonstrating that you recognize her strengths and appreciate them, shared values and goals, and being able to have fun together, all tend to go a long way. Farther than working on oil rig money or big biceps do. But what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/50 "2015-09-07T22:53:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Nice that there is stuff you have heard. Come back when you have more than bro-chatter. … Or with cookies. Gooey chocolate chip ones. Same at you, bro. Come back when you have a double blind study to disprove [this one](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101). Otherwise, “bro do you even lift.” ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/51 "2015-09-07T23:15:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Tell us about them. Please. Ever heard of “roid rage”? Even better yet, ever SEEN someone in roid rage? It’s not a pretty sight;. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/52 "2015-09-07T23:25:52Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Ever heard of “roid rage”? > > Even better yet, ever SEEN someone in roid rage? Of course I’ve _heard_ of it but [actual scientific studies](http://www.livescience.com/38354-what-is-roid-rage.html) are quite conflicted as to whether this is even something that exists or not. Quote from linked article, “_But research shows conflicting results for the existence of steroid-induced rages. If they do exist, they happen rarely, and likely only among excessive users with pre-existing psychological issues_.” And no, I’ve never seen anyone in “roid rage”, despite being a gym rat for decades and a bodybuilder for several years. So I am a bit dubious to your claim to having been witness to this rare phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/53 "2015-09-07T23:28:24Z")
Exactly. DSeids “5% of juicers be raging” quote is not based on credible data. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/54 "2015-09-08T00:06:14Z")
Funny though. The quote that you apply to me is not what I cited or said. Not good form man. From your cite: > [@](#): > > Studies have shown clear associations between testosterone and aggression From the cite I supplied, again. > [@](#): > > at least 5% of AAS users will experience AAS dose-dependent maniac or hypomaniac episodes Please note: mania and hypomania ≠ “'roid rage” Serious neuropsychiatric problems? Sure they be that. Yes bro I lift. Not huge but I lift bro. Not my sole focus to be sure. And I do not at all dispute that “supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with strength training, increase fat-free mass, muscle size, and strength in normal men when potentially confounding variables, such as nutritional intake and exercise stimulus, are standardized.” I do not expect to see a significant mood issue difference in a sample size of 21 given medication over a ten week period. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/55 "2015-09-08T00:38:00Z")
Apologies for conflating two posters responds in my head. Ambi’s cite. Yours was the 19 year old NEJM article with very small sample size. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/56 "2015-09-08T01:14:15Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > :D:D:D You’re in luck. The winter uniform (legging/skinny jeans, sweater, boots) will be back in rotation very, very soon! 🙂 You can always move to Winnipeg, where it is winter half the year. People who live there would probably appreciate a reason to get excited about winter weather. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/57 "2015-09-08T16:37:37Z")
I don’t care for the power lifter physique with the big bulging muscles. I’m not afraid of them, necessarily, although I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong end of an argument with someone that powerful. Eye candy for me is the classic swimmer’s body - developed arms and shoulders tapering to a narrow waist, tight butt, and lightly-muscled legs. Guys I have relationships with tend to be tall and lanky, not necessarily very muscled at all, but generally fit and what you’d probably call wiry. ---
**Author:** ![Reluctant\_A](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@Reluctant\_A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reluctant_A)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/58 "2015-09-08T21:11:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You are operating from a false premise. > > There is no one criteria that “women” find attractive. SOME women like muscular guys. SOME women like skinny guys. SOME women like chubby guys. > > Women are individuals, with individuals tastes, likes, and dislikes. It’s a bit insulting for you to imply they’re all alike. Or, to paraphrase the great American philosopher Bomani Jones, it’s a waste of time to try and isolate what it is that “women” like. Because, what do “women” like? Anything… anything at all! There is no “all women like…” just as surely as there’s no “all men like…”, or “all Black people like…”, et cetera. Now, speaking from personal experience, I _will_ stipulate that it does suck when there is a _particular woman_ whose romantic affection you are trying to gain, and she’s just not feeling whatever it is that you have to offer. That does, indeed, stink. Unfortunately, to borrow from our own Honorable **Martian Bigfoot** , sometimes the Venn diagram of women we’re attracted to and women who are attracted to us end up being two separate circles, that don’t intersect anywhere\*… This, I also know from personal experience. ☹ There’s no reason to believe that the same does not hold true for women, as well. Sometimes, you have to make the choice as to whether or not you’re going to keep whiffing at the high fastball, or start swinging at breaking balls, instead. \*… and sometimes, they intersect at precisely one point, but you screw it up… ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/59 "2015-09-09T01:34:19Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > Like Athena said, it takes insane dedication to build muscle while keeping your body fat extremely low, and I prefer someone who’s more relaxed and easy-going about food and their appearance. The thing is, there’s the whole “birds of a feather” thing. While lots of people enjoy _looking_ at fitness buffs of all types, due to the commitment the lifestyle requires, the people with 3% bodyfat tend to pair off with each other. In the same way the average person doesn’t want to hear them obsess over their protein/carb/fat ratios, they feel kind of queasy watching someone down an entire pizza washed down with a six-pack of beer. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183/60 "2015-09-09T03:38:09Z")
> [@Reluctant\_A](#): > > Or, to paraphrase the great American philosopher Bomani Jones, it’s a waste of time to try and isolate what it is that “women” like. Because, what do “women” like? Anything… anything at all! > > There is no “all women like…” just as surely as there’s no “all men like…”, or “all Black people like…”, et cetera. … Yes there is lots of variation about the mean. Yet one can do studies and surveys and find out what more like more often than something else. And if certain sub-populations more often prefer something different than others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-attracted-to-overly-muscular-men/730183.md?page=4)