# Are Women Ever Portrayed as Really Moronic in Commercials? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209 "2009-12-31T18:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/61 "2010-01-02T07:28:57Z")
I was going to say the Grey Power commercial. Someone already did, and was basically ignored. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/62 "2010-01-02T09:26:55Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > For those saying that the reason this is done in advertising is because women make most of the purchasing decisions and the advertisers want to show them as smart/superior, I think that is BS. > > Since sitcoms also frequently portray the husband as a buffoon, while his wife is the wise one, are we to also conclude that women make up the majority of sitcom viewers and the writers want to suck up to them? I dispute this idea. Name the sitcoms that adhere to the format you assert is common. They have to be current sitcoms to count. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/63 "2010-01-02T10:28:18Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I dispute this idea. Name the sitcoms that adhere to the format you assert is common. They have to be current sitcoms to count. Just off the top of my head, I can think of \* Malcolm In The Middle, The Simpsons,\* and _Family Guy_. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/64 "2010-01-02T11:06:40Z")
Malcolm in the Middle hasn’t been on the air in years, and the other two are cartoons, not sitcoms. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/65 "2010-01-02T11:15:03Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Malcolm in the Middle hasn’t been on the air in years, and the other two are cartoons, not sitcoms. According to Wiki _Malcom_ only finished three years ago, and it’s still on the air in many places (ie here in Australia). And even though FG and _The Simpsons_ are cartoons, they’re still sitcoms at heart. There’s also a new show I saw previews for the other day called _The Middle_ that looks _exactly_ like _Malcolm_. Even some of the cast look similar. From what I’ve seen, the _Bill Engvall Show_ seemed to have the “Smart Wife/Clueless Husband” thing happening, as did the sitcom George Lopez was starring in. We’ve just had a whole bunch of new digital TV channels start up here and at least two of them seem to be running a lot of “Generic American Sitcoms Starring People You’ve Never Heard Of”, and most of which seem to have the “Smart Wife/Clueless Husband/Stereotypical Teenage Daughter/Precocious Son” thing happening. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/66 "2010-01-02T16:21:09Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I think that’s a different dynamic at work. American TV comedies are usually about how the wacky lead interacts with the reasonable supporting characters. Lucy wasn’t an idiot, she was the star. I mentioned this in another similar thread, but it bears repeating. That is the entire point. Lucy was the star. That is why it was ok to portray her as a bumbling idiot. These men today are the stars of the show. That’s why they are potrayed as idiots. It’s funny to watch the star of the show bumble. If people want to see more dumb women on t.v., they will have to be willing to watch shows with the woman as the star. Regarding Malcolm in the Middle…was the mom really wise vs. the dad’s buffoonery? I always saw it as more of a he was more fun and youthful while she was the uptight bitch. There were certainly episodes that focused on her doing really dumb things, based on her bitchiness. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/67 "2010-01-02T18:38:15Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I mentioned this in another similar thread, but it bears repeating. > > That is the entire point. Lucy was the star. That is why it was ok to portray her as a bumbling idiot. > > These men today are the stars of the show. That’s why they are potrayed as idiots. It’s funny to watch the star of the show bumble. If people want to see more dumb women on t.v., they will have to be willing to watch shows with the woman as the star. You can repeat this a hundred million times, and the posters who beat this drum will continue to ignore you. In a few months, another thread like this will pop up with people making ridiculous claims, but it’ll never occur to them that the reason men are “bumbling idiots” in sitcoms is that men are the stars of sitcoms. They’re the ones who get to do the funny shit while their wives play the “straight men”. It’s a pretty simple formula for comedy, and older than television itself, but this is the SDMB–why let facts get in the way? The reason that men are “bumbling idiots” in commercials is that the commercials are trying to sell items to women because men are not the primary market for paper towels, or whatever. Throw in confirmation bias, and you’ve got a recipe for the greatest example of persecution in the past 50 years, apparently. > [@](#): > > Regarding Malcolm in the Middle…was the mom really wise vs. the dad’s buffoonery? I always saw it as more of a he was more fun and youthful while she was the uptight bitch. There were certainly episodes that focused on her doing really dumb things, based on her bitchiness. The dad was not a “buffoon.” Hal was a very warm, very caring, even intelligent person who had poor impulse control–you know, so funny shit would happen. Lois was far from perfect and could sometimes be grating, but she never, ever made Hal feel stupid or inferior. And in **The Simpsons** and **Family Guy** , Homer and Peter are the “stars” and their wives are their humorous foils. Contrast that to **King of the Hill** , where Peggy and Hank both get to take turns being the buffoon and rescuing each other because it’s more of an ensemble show. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/68 "2010-01-02T23:39:15Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > According to Wiki _Malcom_ only finished three years ago, and it’s still on the air in many places (ie here in Australia). And even though FG and _The Simpsons_ are cartoons, they’re still sitcoms at heart. You can’t point to shows that have been cancelled as evidence of a current phenomenon. And cartoons are not sitcoms. > [@](#): > > There’s also a new show I saw previews for the other day called _The Middle_ that looks _exactly_ like _Malcolm_. Even some of the cast look similar. The husband is the together one, though he’s not perfect by any means. Patricia Heaton is the star, and as such plays the wacky, frazzled working mother. If anything that’s strong evidence of the exact opposite of the claim made. Same with _Cougar Town_. That’s my whole point. People seem to cling to this idea of what sitcoms are like, but the sitcoms they’re thinking of went off the air years ago. _Everybody Loves Raymond_, _King of Queens_, _According to Jim_; these shows are all in the past. **Current** sitcoms don’t portray women as put-upon saints and men as bumbling fools. > [@](#): > > From what I’ve seen, the _Bill Engvall Show_ seemed to have the “Smart Wife/Clueless Husband” thing happening, as did the sitcom George Lopez was starring in. I haven’t seen those, but they definitely have potential to be throwbacks. Hopefully a fan of those shows can let us know. The end of your post reminded me of _Hank_, which did conform to the stereotype. It was cancelled after three episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/69 "2010-01-03T01:00:55Z")
From what I’ve seen of _How I Met Your Mother_, the guys seem to be the doofi, and the gals are the more reasonable ones. Or _The Big Bang Theory_, where the guys are socially awkward and Penny is the one with the common sense. Although Leonard is pretty much the central character, and is the most normal of the guys. An interesting throwback case are the sitcoms of Bob Newhart. He was always the sane, reasonable one (and it suited him perfectly) surrounded by eccentrics. That’s why he’s a genius. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/70 "2010-01-03T06:26:32Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > The reason that men are “bumbling idiots” in commercials is that the commercials are trying to sell items to women because men are not the primary market for paper towels, or whatever. Yeah, and women must be the primary market for car buying because there was, for example, an ad for the Honda Pilot that showed the husband literally behaving like a dog. (Can’t find the video of it on Youtube or anywhere for some reason) And women must be the primary market for tax software because there was, for example, an ad for H&R Block (I think) where the woman hit the doofus husband on the head with the box from tax software because he was stupid for buying the brand that doesn’t have phone support (or something like that) Sure, women are the primary market for everything. Men don’t buy anything. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/71 "2010-01-03T06:27:57Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > We did this about a year ago, but no one could really come up with any really moronic women. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502211&highlight=women+commercials](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=502211&highlight=women+commercials) this is a joke right? The 2 ads I liked to in post #9 aren’t moronic enough for you? ETA: unfortunately, the first one had been removed, it was far funnier ETA 2: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/d9sGbKkPdNI/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/d9sGbKkPdNI?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/72 "2010-01-03T06:42:12Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > ETA 2: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9sGbKkPdNI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9sGbKkPdNI) Where’s the smart/normal man who comes and corrects these moronic women and demonstrates how stupid they truly are? Nowhere to be found in this ad, or any ad I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/73 "2010-01-03T06:44:48Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > an ad for H&R Block (I think) where the woman hit the doofus husband on the head with the box from tax software because he was stupid for buying the brand that doesn’t have phone support (or something like that) Actually, the ad goes something [like this](http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/silly-husband-commercials-are-starting-tax-my-patience) > [@](#): > > In the H&R Block ad, this squirrelly lookin’ husband tells his wife they are getting audited. The wife bends over him, concerned. > > “Really? Well, maybe we should see the people that did our taxes,” she says. Then she sneers at him. “Oh, that’s right. We didn’t use people. We used a box. Well, Greg, let’s ask the box what we should do now.” > > The sad little husband doesn’t say anything or even look at her while she holds up the box to her ear and mocks him. > > “What’s it saying?” he titters. > > “Nothing. It’s a box,” she snaps. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/74 "2010-01-03T07:02:47Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Where’s the smart/normal man who comes and corrects these moronic women and demonstrates how stupid they truly are? Nowhere to be found in this ad, or any ad I can think of. To be fair, [this LA county fair](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4NCJxJ-jxM&feature=related) ad has sorta what you’re looking for. It’s funny though, and the ad is local to LA, and LA is where the ditzy valley girl thing got started. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/75 "2010-01-03T07:06:19Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > You can’t point to shows that have been cancelled as evidence of a current phenomenon. And cartoons are not sitcoms. Cartoons can’t be sitcoms? Sez who? And According to Jim didn’t end until June of 2009. That’s close enough to now for me to call it current in terms of television narrative styles. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/76 "2010-01-03T07:16:02Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > To be fair, [this LA county fair](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4NCJxJ-jxM&feature=related) ad has sorta what you’re looking for. > > It’s funny though, and the ad is local to LA, and LA is where the ditzy valley girl thing got started. To be fair, though, the women being made fun of are not representatives of the average woman. They are representatives of the ditzy valley girl, as you mention. Which is in contrast to ads with dumb guys: They are the generic husband/boyfriend, don’t belong to any known subgroup, and are thus representatives of the average man. That is, the “dumb men” ads make fun of all men, whereas the above ads make fun only of valley girls. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/77 "2010-01-03T07:19:00Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Yeah, and women must be the primary market for car buying because there was, for example, an ad for the Honda Pilot that showed the husband literally behaving like a dog. (Can’t find the video of it on Youtube or anywhere for some reason) > > And women must be the primary market for tax software because there was, for example, an ad for H&R Block (I think) where the woman hit the doofus husband on the head with the box from tax software because he was stupid for buying the brand that doesn’t have phone support (or something like that) > > Sure, women are the primary market for everything. Men don’t buy anything. Maybe the target demographic for those ads are women. I don’t know. I do know two things though. The first is that men are responsible for these ad campaign decisions for the most part. The second is that if an ad is ineffective, it doesn’t last for long. Companies spend millions of dollars every year finding and marketing to a select demographic. Clearly, they get the response they want from portraying men as as buffoons. Maybe because these ads appeal to women. Or maybe because it’s all a big joke. After all, it’s safe to “pick on” middle class white men because middle class white men are still pretty much the most privileged demographic in the US. It’s pretty easy to take a joke when you’re still the one in power (well, I guess that would be the general “you” since it’s pretty clear you’re taking this shit seriously). Finally, consider confirmation bias. If you could link to some sort of study on how picked on men are in the media, I’d appreciate it. I do notice fucked up sexual and gender dynamics in commercials, but that has less to do with how stupid men are portrayed as, and more to do with the fact that women are still the happy little housewives and men are still the breadwinners. The point of the commercials aren’t “Hoho, look how stupid men are.” The point of Mom Saving the Day is “Don’t worry, guys, no matter how liberated the women folk get, they’re still going to be in the kitchen. Right where they belong.” ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/78 "2010-01-03T07:33:00Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > It’s pretty easy to take a joke when you’re still the one in power (well, I guess that would be the general “you” since it’s pretty clear you’re taking this shit seriously). Personally, I’m quite politically incorrect. I would prefer if it was OK to make fun of any group (men, women, whites, blacks, etc) on TV. What pisses me off is when it is OK to make fun of some groups but not others. The fact that some groups are “in power” means shit. If I had a 7 year-old-son, why should he have to sit through portrayals of men as dumb and useless, just because “men are in power”? > [@](#): > > Finally, consider confirmation bias. You are right. It’s possible that there is confirmation bias. > [@](#): > > The point of the commercials aren’t “Hoho, look how stupid men are.” The point of Mom Saving the Day is “Don’t worry, guys, no matter how liberated the women folk get, they’re still going to be in the kitchen. Right where they belong.” I guess everyone _does_ have a different chip on their shoulder. How does a man running around literally behaving like a dog mean “Don’t worry, guys, no matter how liberated the women folk get, they’re still going to be in the kitchen. Right where they belong”? How does a woman berating her husband for picking the wrong tax software mean “Don’t worry, guys, no matter how liberated the women folk get, they’re still going to be in the kitchen. Right where they belong”? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/79 "2010-01-03T07:40:11Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > You can repeat this a hundred million times, and the posters who beat this drum will continue to ignore you. In a few months, another thread like this will pop up with people making ridiculous claims, but it’ll never occur to them that the reason men are “bumbling idiots” in sitcoms is that men are the stars of sitcoms. They’re the ones who get to do the funny shit while their wives play the “straight men”. Men are also the ones writing the shows. I don’t know if anybody has ever done a survey of working sitcom writers to determine a ratio of men to women, but I’d guess it’s thoroughly male dominated. Just as an example, more than 90 percent of the episodes of The Simpsons are credited to men. (That doesn’t mean 90 percent of the writing staff has always been male - some of their most prolific writers don’t get many credits for solo episodes - but it’s an indication.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209/80 "2010-01-03T16:41:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Men are also the ones writing the shows. I don’t know if anybody has ever done a survey of working sitcom writers to determine a ratio of men to women, but I’d guess it’s thoroughly male dominated. Just as an example, more than 90 percent of the episodes of The Simpsons are credited to men. (That doesn’t mean 90 percent of the writing staff has always been male - some of their most prolific writers don’t get many credits for solo episodes - but it’s an indication.) According to the _Unauthorized History of the Simpsons_ by John Ortved, there have been a total of 7 female writers on the Simpsons staff. At least one showrunner pretty clearly stated it was because ‘‘women are good at writing about relationships, but fail at being consistent joke machines.’’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-women-ever-portrayed-as-really-moronic-in-commercials/523209.md?page=5)