# Are works of art really stolen to order? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462 "2012-03-22T01:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/1 "2012-03-22T01:51:12Z")
Famous works of art are often stolen as well we all know but whenever it happens news reports usually claim they were stolen to order. Are there really art collectors out there who would pay top dollar for an item they could never show anyone? (OK I realise this might not be GQable, although perhaps police have raided homes of rich people and found ill-gotten artistic gains before?) ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/2 "2012-03-22T02:48:06Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Famous works of art are often stolen as well we all know but whenever it happens news reports usually claim they were stolen to order. \ Do you have a link to any of these news reports? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/3 "2012-03-22T03:06:35Z")
I’ve only heard of that in fiction. But maybe it happens. Whoever does it probably has a website these days. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/4 "2012-03-22T03:22:48Z")
If the thieves aren’t caught, and the artwork isn’t recovered how do you know if it was “ordered” and who “ordered” it? ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/5 "2012-03-22T04:59:57Z")
I’m sure that it gets a bit blurry; I doubt someone would attempt to steal ‘The Scream’, ‘The Mona Lisa’ or ‘Starry Night’ without a buyer, in advance. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/6 "2012-03-22T05:36:51Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I’m sure that it gets a bit blurry; I doubt someone would attempt to steal ‘The Scream’, ‘The Mona Lisa’ or ‘Starry Night’ without a buyer, in advance. The Scream: [The Scream - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scream#Thefts) Mona Lisa: [Mona Lisa - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#Theft_and_vandalism) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/7 "2012-03-22T11:34:40Z")
You don’t need a buyer to steal famous art – you can simply ransom it. There’s really no point in hiring someone to steal a famous painting; you won’t be able to tell anyone you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/8 "2012-03-22T11:49:18Z")
I’ve heard claims that some stolen artwork has been used as collateral in drug deals and other such illicit transactions. I’m not sure I really buy it; again, of what value is an artwork that you can’t show to anyone because it’s hot? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/9 "2012-03-22T11:51:54Z")
> **[Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum | Art theft of 1990](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_Stewart_Gardner_Museum#Art_theft_of_1990)** > > Early in the morning of March 18, 1990, two thieves disguised as police officers robbed the museum of thirteen works worth some $500 million – the greatest known property theft in history. Among the works was The Concert (c. 1664), one of only 34 known by Johannes Vermeer and thought to be the most valuable unrecovered painting at over $200 million.\[when?\] Also missing is The Storm on the Sea of Galilee (1633), Rembrandt's only known seascape. > The works have not been recovered. The museum initia... Here’s one example of an art theft that may very well have been to order. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/10 "2012-03-22T12:05:43Z")
Not quite what you’re looking for, but: Stéphane Breitwieser stole a billion dollars worth of art works and [kept them in his bedroom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Breitwieser) at his mother’s house. She shoved a bunch of them down the garbage disposal. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/11 "2012-03-22T23:30:55Z")
> [@tellyworth](#): > > Not quite what you’re looking for, but: Stéphane Breitwieser stole a billion dollars worth of art works and [kept them in his bedroom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Breitwieser) at his mother’s house. She shoved a bunch of them down the garbage disposal. Why…did…you…tell…me…this? 😢 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/12 "2012-03-23T15:17:58Z")
I’ll pay $5 for any Gainsborough. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/13 "2012-03-23T15:24:14Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Why…did…you…tell…me…this? 😢 No kidding. I have the weirdest out of character feeling that this guy should be locked up forever. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/14 "2012-03-23T15:28:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You don’t need a buyer to steal famous art – you can simply ransom it. > > There’s really no point in hiring someone to steal a famous painting; you won’t be able to tell anyone you have it. Tell that to the thieves who stole several paintings (including Remmbrandt’s only seascape – _Storm on the Sea of Galilee_) from the Isabella Stewart Gardner in Boston 22 years ago this month. The pieces they took would be conspicuous at any art showing or gallery. They still haven’t been found, salthough rumors abound. If this wasn’t a targeted theft for an individual, then the thieves wanted it themselves – which amounts to the same thing. Certainly nobody has tried to get ransom for them. There have been many such stolen and not ransomed artworks over the years, some of them masterpieces. Including the _Mona Lisa_: > **[Mona Lisa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa)** > > The Mona Lisa\[a\] is a half-length portrait painting by the Italian artist Leonardo da Vinci. Considered an archetypal masterpiece of the Italian Renaissance, it has been described as "the best known, the most visited, the most written about, the most sung about, \[and\] the most parodied work of art in the world." The painting's novel qualities include the subject's enigmatic expression, monumentality of the composition, the subtle modelling of forms, and the atmospheric illusionism. The painti... ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/15 "2012-03-23T17:27:17Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There’s really no point in hiring someone to steal a famous painting; you won’t be able to tell anyone you have it. > [@Diceman](#): > > I’ve heard claims that some stolen artwork has been used as collateral in drug deals and other such illicit transactions. I’m not sure I really buy it; again, of what value is an artwork that you can’t show to anyone because it’s hot? I have met people who just want something for themselves. They’re not interested in telling anyone else - the mere fact that they own the object satisfies them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/16 "2012-03-23T17:39:08Z")
OP: whatcha lookin for? ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/17 "2012-03-23T18:37:28Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I have met people who just want something for themselves. > They’re not interested in telling anyone else - the mere fact that they own the object satisfies them. Yes. Also, they might know people who they can trust with the “I’ll show it to you if you don’t tell anybody else” arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/18 "2012-03-23T20:47:22Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > Do you have a link to any of these news reports? > **[Great iPhone art robbery: Paintings worth millions stolen to order by gang...](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/great-iphone-art-robbery-paintings-173375)** > > An armed gang stole art worth millions in a daring hi-tech heist, we can reveal. [http://www.independent.ie/world-news/paintings-worth-21m-stolen-to-order-446123.html](http://www.independent.ie/world-news/paintings-worth-21m-stolen-to-order-446123.html) > **[How art treasures are stolen to order](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/jan/08/nickhopkins)** > > Christopher Brown is in sombre mood. "I have a sense of very great personal loss," he said, apologising for his exasperated tone. "I'm sad. It has been a difficult time for all of us." > **[Stolen paintings 'rain damaged'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-178534/Stolen-paintings-rain-damaged.html)** > > Three stolen paintings by Picasso, Gauguin and Van Gogh which were found today following an anonymous tip-off may have been severely damaged by rain, police said > **[The Dispatch - Google News Archive Search](https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19780421&id=uekbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mVEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4842,4893620&hl=en)** ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/19 "2012-03-23T20:51:33Z")
need answer fast! ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462/20 "2012-03-23T21:08:22Z")
There was the case in New York a year or two ago, where some guy found a painting in the trash at the curb. He pulled it out, took it home… while trying to trace the artist by the signature, he found it was stolen over a decade before that. Not a household name artist, but apparently well known in modern art circles… Seems whoever stole/had it left it in the apartment when they moved, and the new owner did not like it. > **[One Person’s Trash Is Another Person’s Lost Masterpiece (Published 2007)](https://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/23/arts/design/23pain.html?pagewanted=all)** > > Elizabeth Gibson found a painting by Rufino Tamayo on the street four years ago. Said to be worth about $1 million, it is heading for the auction block next month. (EDIT) Oops.Nobody knows who tossed it out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-works-of-art-really-stolen-to-order/616462.md?page=2)