That might be true if the customers satisfaction didn’t have the immediate effect of earning you a tip or not, but if it did, I am pretty sure they would put up with the crappy customers. I guess I don’t understand your point. Are you implying that the cook’s social skills are so inept that they possibly couldn’t handle it? It’s really not that difficult to bite your tongue and try to get the order right.
It’s not that a cook’s social skills are inept. But different personality types fit different occupations. For a lot of people, it is hard to bite your tongue. Some people simply aren’t customer service oriented. It’s one thing to bite your tongue and say “yes sir” to your boss when he tells you to do something. It’s another thing to smile, be pleasant and act like you actually care about the family with the screaming kids at table four.
I resent Antechinus’s assertion that I do not tip. I almost always do. I eat out at restaurants a lot, and perhaps 1-2% of the time deem the service bad enough to not warrant a tip. I usually tip 13-16%, as I said, and will tip higher under other circumstances. And when I say I tip 13-16%, this is the actual amount I tip – on a website it would be easier to claim a higher number.
I have worked as a dishwater and waiter and understand the service economy. But I do not force people to take a job where wages are low. I feel bad about their situation, and almost always tip – usually 15%. But should I be OBLIGED to tip? Should I suffer slings and arrows if I choose not to? My answer is no, regardless of how much it upsets the professionals who judge people largely by this criterion. Indeed, carlyjay has implied I am a bad tipper since I only tip a mere 15% most of the time. And Antechinus is making things up out of whole cloth.
I have also worked bagging groceries (we were not allowed to take tips), as an underpaid TA, driving taxis, referreeing soccer games, in a convenience store… all of which are low paid jobs with no expectation of a 20% tip. I tip my taxi driver, barber, hotel staff and, indeed, when I go out to a restaurant, which I do often. I do so since I am now in a position where I can now afford to tip and I am personally aware of making ends meet. I put myself through eleven years of university on low end jobs.
If I make a personal decision to tip 15%, and not according to the Zagat guide, it is your hard cheese. I do almost always tip, and regardless of what the folks on this board claim I would bet most of your customers do not tip 20%, and some tip far, far less than 15%. If your service is basic (you are not rude and don’t screw up more than 4 or 5 things) you’ll get a tip around 15% – I consider this adequate, not generous. I also tip similarly in countries which have a less outspoken tradition of demanding tips. If your service is exceptional and unobtrusive I will give you more. But this is entirely my decision.
How do YOU tip when you go in a taxi, to a hotel, to the barber?
If you have a family that is just getting by, counting the pennies, and has few luxuries and pleasures – I’d much rather they went out and had a good meal then were made to feel like swine since they could not afford to tip 20%.
Well, I AM a professional, but a number of years ago, I personally was counting pennies and just getting by for a number of years. I recall one month where, thanks to some stocking up during a better previous week, I knew where my next meal was coming from, but a miscalculation meant I didn’t know where my next toilet paper was coming from, which I found to be worse.
Do you know what I did when I just felt I needed a break from my difficulties and treated myself to a small night out? I ate places where I could afford to tip, and if I couldn’t find one, I ate fast food or from other establishments where tipping is not necessarily as customary. I realize things seem to be different in Canada, where which similarly-earning occupations may be tipped or not tipped, but here in the US, my server relies on my tips to even make minimum wage. Is my financial difficulty supposed to increase theirs because I decided to eat where I could not afford to follow established custom? Nonsense.
You have a right to your own practices in tipping. You have a right not to have that practice misrepresented. We have a right to our opinions of your practices, and a right to voice those opinions, as you have voiced yours. Free speech works both ways. 'Nuff said.
Right. My Mom was tipped 10%. Same service that now asks for 15%. The price of the food has gone up to match inflation, with the tip thuswise. Why is it that the dime tip on the $1 burger plate was OK back then, but now the $1 tip on the $10 burger plate is cheap? Do the servers work harder than my Mom did?
And now, they want 20%?!? Do servers work twice as hard as my Mom did?
Don’t worry, in a nice restaurant I usually tip at least 15%. But this sneaking 20% thing is redic.
Not 20%, 200-300% to bring them up to non-tipped minimum wage. Perhaps you can imagine why restaurant owners might blanch at the thought of doubling or tripling their employees’ wages.
But you aren’t. The price of your food and drink would go UP if the restaurant paid the employees higher wages and eschewed tips. Because the servers are paid less, your steak only costs $20 instead of $30. This way, if the service really is abysmal, you do have the option of not tipping, or tipping poorly, To Insure Prompt Service.
(And no, I do not expect someone to tip if the service is bad. The stories of rude servers in this thread horrify me, and if there are people treating their customers that way, they ought to not be in this industry.)
I understand how it can feel that way. But such is the nature of travel. I wondered, when I was spending two months in Scotland, why the hell I was paying double what I would pay back home for, say, a box of cereal. The cereal tastes the same. Why am I paying twice the amount? But that’s the way things are. I couldn’t very well tell the cashier, “I’m only paying the amount I would pay back home, because it’s the same product.”
Well, as scotandersn said, because tips on top of the small wage make it so.
For people such as myself, who are pursuing other careers (mine is acting) waitressing provides the flexibility I need to allow me to pursue what I really want to do. If people tip properly, I make enough money to pay my rent. But at my current restaurant, I’m getting an average of 11%, which becomes 7% after tip-out, and less after taxes, so overall I’m barely making enough to squeak by. If, however, I was making 15% or more, I would be making enough money to make it worthwhile.
That being said, you’re right, it wasn’t worth it, because too many people had the attitude of “I don’t agree with tipping”. So I’ve been job searching.
Because for the way I get treated as a server, it’s not worth the just-over-the-poverty-line I’ve been living on. Luckily, I’ve found a different job in a different field, which pays substantially more. But I’m lucky; I have a good education and the right qualifications to make me employable in a variety of fields for good money, and this job is willing to work around my flexibility needs. Not everyone has that chance.
Not heartless, just ignorant on this particular issue. My suggestion is, if you don’t feel it is your concern, then you should not eat at restaurants in North America, unless the 15% gratuity is included. In the same vein, it’s not the server’s fault that you don’t agree with the economics of the restaurant industry.
That is, I assume, because you’ve never worked in an industry that had your wages supplemented by tips. If you had, you may see things differently.
Not that I know of. Not in Canada either. The closest you’ll get is a restaurant that includes a 15% gratuity charge.
I can imagine it, and if these people were working for wages that were low because they were expected to get tips, I would gladly tip them. The price for the canned peas and McDonalds might be lower were that the case, anyway. But even if they weren’t, the fact is: If I used this service with the full knowledge that tips are generally expected, I would use it with the intention of tipping. If I did not wish to tip, I would not use this service. I can choose to NOT use a service that requires tipping, if I do not agree with the custom. No one is forcing you to eat at a restaurant. If you want to be served your dinner by a stranger in North America, be aware that tips are generally expected.
As for the questions other people have asked re: how do you tip cab drivers, hairdressers, etc: I tip generously, as I do in restaurants. If I can’t afford to tip the cab driver, I don’t take a cab. I’ve had several occasions where I wanted to take a cab, and realized that I didn’t have enough money for the trip and a good tip. So I took the bus.
I’ve said it before, but I guess I have to say it again. For at least 25 years, meal prices have remained below the inflation rate of the Consumer Price Index. Your server’s rent, medical insurance, and general cost of living have kept up.
You think you can get by on what your mom used to earn? Hell, in my mom’s day, a $50 thousand dollar house was luxury. If a $50 thousand dollar house was good enough for her, it’s good enough for me. Hey realtor, could you find me a nice $50 thousand dollar house please? It was good enough for my mom.
I like to tip at least 30% – quite often I go above 40%! I like to give big tips, I figure I am accumulating some good karma that way!
Don’t be silly. A Burger plate is now $10, not $1. Sure, inflation has effected everything so of course a dime tip is nothing now. :rolleyes: But 10% is still 10%, percentages don’t increase with inflation, just the dollar amounts. :rolleyes: Can you give me a cite that shows that meal costs are -in constant dollars- half what they were in the late 50’s, early 60’s? Becuase by asking that the tip % double, you saying that that restaurant meals have fallen behind inflation-wise by half! :dubious:
I can’t tell you by how much the average restaurant meal price has fallen behind, but I already provided a cite they haven’t kept up with inflation for a quarter century. Go back and look. Twenty five years ago I could probably rent a decent place for $200-300/month. The same place now costs $900/month. Meanwhile, you think the cost of a burger has gone from $2 to $9. It hasn’t.
I don’t know if it is done differently in the US, but here the inflation rate is weighted according to the requirements and spending habits of the “average person”. The important thing for a business is not the stated inflation rate - it is the rate at which their costs are increasing. It is true that wages should be increased in line with the stated inflation rate, but if the other costs for the business are stable, they don’t need to raise their prices by as much.
A question: if the average tip is 15% (or any other number), is there any reason why you could not just abolish tips, increase the prices by the value of the average tip, and advertise the true price of the service? Isn’t a reliable income worth more than an unreliable income of the same average value?
That cite simple sez that meal prices “remain behind inflation”. They don’t say by how much, or when the data dates from. Note that I am talking about a “burger PLATE” not just a burger. Burgers were 10cents at McDonalds, the same burger is now $1. A “Burger plate” means a coffee-shop meal with burger, fries, etc. This used to be $1. It is now $10.
However, according to the CPI itself
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050422/d050422a.htm
“In March, the CPI was 2.3% higher compared with March 2004. Upward pressure was exerted primarily by gasoline prices, homeowners’ replacement cost, *restaurant meals prices, * property taxes and fuel oil prices…Consumers paid 2.9% more for restaurant meals in March than the same month a year earlier.” Thus restaurant meal prices have gone up faster than the CPI.
Here’s a PDF file about restaurant food prices since the 1850’s
http://www.coml.org/medres/hmap_news_10-24-05.pdf
This cite shows that restaurant meals have gone up 100% in the last 15 years- while the retail price of goods has increased only 38%- the overall retail price index has gone up 62%.
Here’s another cite, comparing the CPI over the
http://www.hbosplc.com/economy/includes/17_07_04%20RPIRelease.doc
Here’s another cite from Or in 1999
the inflation of restaurant meal prices matches general price increases in the rest of the economy and is less than general food and beverage price inflation
But it’s also been asserted that the generally edpected tip has also gone up as a percentage, from 10% to 15% - in effect, a 50% increase. I don’t think the cost of meals has lagged that far, has it?
I still think 15%'s appropriate for ordinary service. A reasonably priced restaurant will usually charge the average table at least $40 at dinner, and in some restaurants a lot more. A waiter handling four tables with an average 90-minute turnaround would, at 15%, make $16 an hour on tips. Even with some tipout that’s not an unreasonable salary for an unskilled worker in a low-to-medium-end restaurant. Now, I know other customers may not pay the 15% they should, but should I have to beef it up to 30% to make up for them?
Tipping fairly is to be expected, tipping generously is, well, generous. Let’s not let tips creep to 25% - which I predict servers will be demanding within ten years - or else before long restaurant prices will be sheer fiction, and restaurants will be pushing to not pay servers at all.
If the service has been good, I’ll take the bottom line (after tax), round it up to the next dollar and do 15% on that. Or more, if the service was really good.
If it wasn’t so hot, I’ll tip 15% on the subtotal.
If it sucked, I’ll tip 10% or less on the subtotal. In my entire life, I have only had one occasion where the service was so horrible that I complained to the management. We got comped and needless to say, there was no tip. But I think the comp got charged to the waiter. I certainly hope so.
We give 20%…and on special occasions where the server has really helped above and beyond (driving directions, whats new in town, etc.) we’ll go 30%. I’ve tipped 20% for some meals where there were problems too: kitchen problems. I could tell that our server was doing her best, and I know textbooks aren’t cheap. Eventually, she made it right and we were happy.
I can count on one finger the times in my life that I’ve tipped less than 20%…and in that specific instance (more rare than finding 1kt Solitaire ring in a crackerjack box), the waitstaff just didn’t want to be waitstaff, let alone be our waitstaff.
Yes, if you lose our entire table’s dinner order, but make us wait 2 full hours thinking its still coming (and everytime we flagged you down told us its delayed, but its still coming), and then give us lip and attitude when we dare get upset after you break the news that no one at our table is getting any food at all… yes, that will lower your tip.
OK, that’s not true. When the Bennigans on Rt 46 in Parsippany manager came over and said “sorry, but thats life” and no you aren’t getting anything off your order, no free drink, no coupon for next time, no nothing but a ‘yup, waiting two hours for nothing…thats too bad alright’, we just replied “it sure is”, grabbed our coats and left. I’ve often wondered what 10+ years of bad publicity for being Dicks to their customers cost that restaurant.
We went home and ordered pizza that night, tipped the delivery guy $10, offered him a cold can of soda, asked him if he needed to use the john before he left, and shook his hand ‘thank you’ on the way out. Because tipping is important.
I usually tip about 15% for average, but here in WA I would not blame anyone for just tipping 10%. State minimum wage for all servers is $7.63 and the restaurants are not allowed to use tips to bring that up. I don’t think our meal prices are unusually high because of this, so I think getting rid of that whole below minimum wage for servers thing is a great idea. However when I eat out at a regular spot and get a complimentary drink or appetizer I will always tip on what the bill would have been had I not received a freebie. I believes that’s proper for stuff like buy one get 1 free meals as well. The server still needed to do the work even if you didn’t pay for it.
Here is info about the WA minimum wage: ADP Tools | ADP
So what if the price does go up? At least the staff might earn enough to live on that way, and then you’re more likely to have people who WANT to be there working as waitstaff.
It’s been shown that there’s no real difference in service levels between the US (tipping) and Australia (non-tipping)… maybe I should move to the US and open a restaurant? The customers will pay my staff for me, and I can keep all the money from the meals and go swimming in my money vault of a weekend! BUWAHAHAHAHA! 
Do you have annual CPI wage increases? (everyone’s wages here automatically go up 2% or so eaach year, to keep in line with the CPI and cost of living increases- independently of any negotiated payrises.)
Yes, but here’s the thing: As a tourist, you get used to being overcharged for things a lot- especially if you go to “touristy” places. And the total cost of your meal “magically” increasing by 20%- a 20% that’s not explicity stated in writing anywhere in the establishment- would be considered misleading and/or fraud in this part of the world. And as I mentioned in a previous thread on the subject, whilst Tipping may not be a city in China, Misleading isn’t a town in England and Fraud is not a Norwegian Port. 
Well, if they choose to work in a job that relies on strangers giving them free money, I choose to be a stranger who doesn’t give free money to those who work in those jobs.
Good luck with the new job! It’s always nice to get a new job that pays more than your last one… and hopefully you won’t have to deal with customers anymmore!
But it is their concern that they work in a job that doesn’t pay them enough to live on.
I’m aware that Unemployment Payments in the US aren’t as generous as they are here (AUD$400/fortnight if you’re studying or genuinely unemployed, but eventually they make you look for work- as long as you’re actually trying, they’ll keep paying you), but really, surely being on unemployment benefits would still work out better than working for $2.15/hr at the Crab Shack and hoping people feel like tipping a bit extra that week since your rent is short?
There’s no such thing in Australia as an industry whereby your pay is largely made up of tips, and even if there was, I’d be looking for other ways to make money instead of working somewhere where I was relying upon the generosity of customers purely to ensure I could pay the bills.
As long as it’s CLEARLY stated on the menu and the bill, that’s a step in the right direction.
Well, they are in a way- since if you’re on holiday you don’t really have the option of going to the supermarket, buying groceries, and cooking them in your hotel room. So either you eat McDonalds and Pizza for two weeks, or you go to places like Denny’s and Ihop and other sit-down restauranty places so you can eat.
The ironic thing is that, in my previous experience at US restaurants, the staff have heard the accent, figured I wasn’t going to tip, and served me accordingly- thus allowing me to leave no tip, and having 15-20% extra to spend on other things- say, a nice dessert, or maybe some souvenirs, or any of the other myriad things one buys on holiday.
Ultimately I have no problems being regarded as a stingy bastard by complete strangers that I’ll never see again. 
This is a prime example of why I think the “tipping culture” in North America is a BAD thing.
Out of curiosity, have you seen the film Waiting… at all?
Uh… okay.
#1: The cost of the meal is not “magically” increased. I’m having a hard time understanding what it is you’re not understanding about the whole “this is what we do in North America” thing. I mean, that’s just how things are done here. Servers don’t get paid a lot, because here, people are expected to tip. I’m frankly really surprised by your cavalier attitude about the whole thing. I mean, no offense, but it just seems really condescending and sort of “look-down-your-nose-at-the-poor-people”. Not everyone gets to work in high paying jobs. Not everyone has a choice… but it seems like you’re saying, “well, if they’re dumb enough to work in a place like that…” which is frankly kind of rude. Not to mention the fact that you’re purposefully disregarding the way things are done in another country when you visit.
#2: Of course it’s your choice how you act, but it seems to me that a courteous person would research a country a little before visiting, and act appropriately so as not to be insulting while here. But you seem to be–and pardon me if I’m misinterpreting the winky faces and such–actually enjoying the fact that you’re treating your servers badly, according to the custom of the country you’re visiting. That’s kind of unsettling.
As we are not paid mimimum wage, the money we earn from tips is not “free” money, it is earned. I’m still bewildered as to how you don’t understand this.
I have no idea how things are done in the US, I’m Canadian. Perhaps unemployment WOULD be better, but I think it’s a bit more complicated than that here.
Funny, when I hear an accent, I don’t assume someone isn’t going to tip. I assume they’ve read the travel books and know the customs, as I would if I were travelling to their country. I doubt the servers immediately thought, “gee, I hope this guy gets dessert, he deserves it because he doesn’t want to tip,” or something.
Am I the only one who cringes at this?
I think overall, there’s nothing in the world that will convince you of how unpleasant that all sounds… unless one day you find yourself in a position where the courtesy of strangers means as much to you as it does to me (and my landlord), and you find yourself belittled.
But hey… we can always hope karma doesn’t exist, right? :rolleyes:
Believe it or not, I’m not even close to rich by any stretch of the imagination. I work in a supermarket stacking the shelves at night, and in my spare time I do a bit of writing work which brings in a bit of extra cash to pay for non-essential stuff like trips to the movies and so on.
The cultural barrier on this issue may well prove to be insurmountable, though, because in this country it would be considered entirely your own fault if you were working somewhere that only paid $2.15 and hour. In fact, no-one would- they’d quit and go on the dole instead. Just because someone earns more than minimum wage doesn’t make their job “high-paying”, IMO.
You are indeed misinterpreting the smilies- I’m using them to indicate I’m NOT trying to be an evil argumentative misanthropic ogre. I’m sorry if it’s coming across that way…I don’t enjoy treating service staff badly! In my time I’ve worked at McDonalds, at a bar, and in a Video Game Arcade, so I know how it feels. But ultimately, I subscribe to the Mr. Pink School Of Tipping, and a lot of people in North America do, too. It’s not like I’m refusing to take my shoes off in a Buddhist Temple or making disparaging comments about the King of Thailand.
Well, “earned” is a relative concept.
Here’s an interesting idea: What if your work isn’t worth 20% of the bill? I don’t mean because of bad service, I just mean because carrying a few plates and a glass of beer isn’t exactly hard work on an individual diner basis (it is hard work over the course of a restaurant, I will concede). If I buy a $20 steak and chips and have a beer with dinner, there’s not $4 worth of worth of work involved in bringing said items from the kitchen to me. Pouring a beer/shot is not worth $1, either.
Let’s put it another way: Either I could leave a $2 tip on a $20 meal, which would apparently be considered so insulting the waitperson involved may very well challenge me to a duel by way of redress, or I can leave NO tip and simply confirm the waitperson’s stereotype that Australian tourists are stingy. Look, there’s those cultural differences again!
Possibly- I’m not familiar with Canadian Social Security arrangements, but surely it’s got to be better than waiting tables and having guys making lewd comments, all in the hope of getting a couple of bucks from them and the end of the evening?
Shall I add it to my List?
#218: Stiffed waitstaff in foreign country of tips.
In all seriousness, I’d probably feel differently about the whole “tipping” thing If I lived in the US and had grown up with it. Since I don’t and haven’t, I suspect it will forever remain in the realms of Things I Will Never Agree With, along with American spellings of certain words and the idea that the words Decaffeinated and Coffee belong in the same sentence. 