# Are you a Doctor? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 13, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552 "2006-08-13T15:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/81 "2006-08-15T01:17:53Z")
[QUOTE=Brynda] All the above. I have a private practice (started a year ago, doing quite well). I am also a consultant at the local VA, where I do compensation and pension evals, which are mostly clinical evals of those claiming PTSD. I also consult for a large health and wellness program that has a research component. Finally, I teach a course in Theories of Personality. My background is that I got my PhD in social psychology, then taught for 8 years before returning to respecialize in clinical. Two years of coursework, an internship and a post doc later, I was a clinician. I then worked in two rehab hospitals with medically-ill patients (mostly newly acquired spinal cord injuries) . Finally last year I decided to move and bust out on my own. I LOVE it. So, what about you? And you, **jellyblue**? [/QUOTE] I’m exclusively a clinician in private practice. Although I also do commercial art on the side, but that’s another story 🙂 . I worked for UCSD’s Department of Outpatient Psychiatry for awhile and consult here and there. **Brynda** , the VA and rehab gigs sound tough, emotionally speaking. Good to hear your practice is going well. Nice to know there are a couple of Psychologist Dopers (hey! Psy.D.'s!) ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/82 "2006-08-15T03:08:24Z")
[QUOTE=Carnac the Magnificent!] Your assertion is not categorically accurate. Increasingly, grad programs are offering parellel or standalone applied doctorates (or “professional doctorates”) that entail a three-year program of study, with no dissertation. Moreover, some of these programs waive the master’s degree as a prerequisite. And then there’s the EdD… 😉 [/QUOTE] Carnac, would a professional doctorate be something like a podiatrist for example? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/83 "2006-08-15T03:57:25Z")
> [@](#): > > All the above. I have a private practice (started a year ago, doing quite well). I am also a consultant at the local VA, where I do compensation and pension evals, which are mostly clinical evals of those claiming PTSD. I also consult for a large health and wellness program that has a research component. Finally, I teach a course in Theories of Personality. > > My background is that I got my PhD in social psychology, then taught for 8 years before returning to respecialize in clinical. Two years of coursework, an internship and a post doc later, I was a clinician. I then worked in two rehab hospitals with medically-ill patients (mostly newly acquired spinal cord injuries) . Finally last year I decided to move and bust out on my own. I LOVE it. I have a Psy.D. and teach a full-time load across several psych- and psych-related programs at a university. I also do some work at a community college, and have a small private practice. I do a reasonable amount of writing and presenting as well, and a little consulting. I enjoy all of it, and enjoy having a degree that lets me be versatile. The Psy.D. isn’t intended to lead to teaching, generally speaking, but I was a teacher before I trained as a therapist. I’d say I spend 90% of my work time in instructional and related activities, and about 10% in “other.” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/84 "2006-08-15T04:34:39Z")
JTHUNDER – > [@](#): > > And they would be wrong. A Ph.D. typically takes more time than an M.D., not less. Furthermore, since it requires both mastery of one’s field and an original contribution to that field, I stand by my assertion that it involves greater scope. (Note: I’m not saying that medical degrees are easy to get. Not at all. I merely say that anyone who thinks that a Ph.D. requires less time and study than an M.D. is woefully misinformed.) Hey, I’ll let you and the MDs fight it out. > [@](#): > > Well, as others have already pointed out, the term “doctor” originally referred to Ph.D.'s or their equivalents, as evidenced by its etymology. This term was simply co-opted by the medical community. So if a lawyer does not consider a Ph.D. to be a real doctor, then that person is simply misinformed. No, I think I’m pretty well informed, thanks. The fact is that culturally and historically, in the United States, medical doctors have almost completely successfully co-opted the term “doctor.” Ask the average American what a “doctor” is and he’s going to give you a definition that reflects “physician,” not “PhD holder.” I’m not particularly interested in the words entymology. Even my atheist friends say “goodbye.” > [@](#): > > I acknowledge the hard work that goes into obtaining a J.D., as well as the intelligence of those who manage to obtain that degree. However, I agree with pravnik, who says that other law degrees (e.g. the J.S.D.) are more properly equivalent to a Ph.D. For this reason, I do not think that the J.D. is comparable to a Ph.D., even though I admite the intelligence and tenacity of those who pursued that route. This is the sort of analysis that amuses me. 🙂 Look, if you want to think your degree is longer, thicker, and harder than mine, be my guest; I don’t really care. The degrees are _not_ comparable, as you yourself point out. I technically hold a doctorate degree, and therefore I suppose I am technically entitled to refer to myself as a doctor, but I wouldn’t dream of doing so – because I’m not a doctor. If I had a terminal degree in law, I _still_ wouldn’t call myself a doctor. And, with all due respect, I personally wouldn’t think of you as a doctor, either. So then we’re back to “_I’m_ a doctor and you’re _not_!” which is where my amused response is “okay.” You want to call yourself the Grand High Poobah of Thunderland, it’s no skin off my nose. You earned a doctoral degree; you want to use the title be my guest. But I confess that I will probably secretly, in the recesses of my tiny little heart, think you’re a wee bit pretentious. I actually have met very few people with PhDs who insist on being called “doctor” or refer to themselves as such. All of my professors, including my JSD law professors, were addressed as “professor.” CARNAC sez: > [@](#): > > Concerns of “huge and humorous” pretentiousness coming from the folks who refer to themselves as “Esquire”? I would bite my tongue off before referring to myself as “esquire.” It is miles aways dumber, more pretentious, and harder to defend than “doctor” for the PhD. I figure people who need to know my level of education will figure it out, and other people are not going to care. I personally would be uncomfortable using any title that unnecessarily trumpeted my accomplishments. Unless that title was “Madam President.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/85 "2006-08-15T12:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] JTHUNDER – I actually have met very few people with PhDs who insist on being called “doctor” or refer to themselves as such. All of my professors, including my JSD law professors, were addressed as “professor.” [/QUOTE] Hey I posted a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=298271) awhile back that tried to make the case that _anyone_, PhD, MD or JD, who insists on calling themselves “doctor” is being pretentious and on a power play. “Professor” doesn’t work for quite a few PhDs. I’m a lab guy. Never taught a class in my life. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/86 "2006-08-15T13:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] The PhDs keep coming out of the woodwork around here. I am often surprised when I find out someone is a PhD of anything, and I really haven’t got any idea why. A friend of mine is a PhD, and I didn’t know it until nearly a year after meeting him. His dad says “My son is a doctor, but not the good kind.” Friend says it’s jokingly, so I’ll have to take his word on it. So? Along with our newly minted Dr. Podkayne and soon-to-be-Dr. Angua, are you a doctor? If you are, what is your doctorate in? Maybe describe your thesis or dissertation, if it won’t give you away. [/QUOTE] I have my Doctorate in Genetics and Biochemistry. For my grad work I studied genetic control of lipid synthesis in yeast (Really! It was extremely interesting!) One year for halloween I dressed up as a “real” doctor (lab coat, plastic doctor kit etc). As a PhD in biology I always get asked- “Why didn’t you want to be a \*real \* doctor?” Except by my folks- I always heard while growing up that being a prof was the best thing one could be. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/87 "2006-08-15T13:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=] Carnac the Magnificent!] Your assertion is not categorically accurate. Increasingly, grad programs are offering parellel or standalone applied doctorates (or “professional doctorates”) that entail a three-year program of study, with no dissertation. Moreover, some of these programs waive the master’s degree as a prerequisite. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JThunder] Even if we grant that to be true, that only makes these situations exceptions to the general rule. I see no reason why one should harp on these exceptions, while simultaneously ignoring the blanket claim that the M.D. takes up more time (and require greater scope) than the Ph.D. degree. [/QUOTE] Harp? Is this an academic term? 😉 If one compares trends over the past 15 years, the professional doctorate is clearly on the rise, whereas academia itself has often and publicly wrung its hands over declining enrollment in traditional (non-Top 20) PhD programs. As an aside, most PhD programs have tiny enrollments. Tiny. The professional doctorate programs, by contrast, often and easily field 30 to 50 candidates, sometimes as many as 100 to 200. In addition, the professional programs are proliferating at a phenomenal rate. Impartial observers predict the traditional PhD will be the exception within the next 15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/88 "2006-08-15T14:06:09Z")
**Carnac** , I’m extremely confused. Can you clarify what country and what fields of study you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/89 "2006-08-15T16:12:21Z")
I’m still in progress in my Masters, but I thought I’d let you guys know that I saw the most pretentious license plate in existence the other day. It read: “PHD ESQ”. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/90 "2006-08-15T16:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Ask the average American what a “doctor” is and he’s going to give you a definition that reflects “physician,” not “PhD holder.” I’m not particularly interested in the words entymology. [/QUOTE] I know, but try not to let it bug you. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/91 "2006-08-15T17:05:11Z")
[Quote=Jodi] Ask the average American what a “doctor” is and he’s going to give you a definition that reflects “physician,” not “PhD holder.” I’m not particularly interested in the words entymology. [QUOTE=Tracy Lord] I know, but try not to let it bug you. [/QUOTE] [/quote] 🆒 I bet you wait with great anticipation for that opportunity, **Tracy**! ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/92 "2006-08-15T18:09:02Z")
Sometimes they just do it themselves. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/93 "2006-08-15T18:35:02Z")
TRACY LORD – > [@](#): > > I know, but try not to let it bug you. Whoops! 😃 Y’know, the real tragedy is I had to read your post three times before I got it. Must be my lack of edumacation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fishbicycle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aeb1de/32.png) [@fishbicycle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fishbicycle)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/94 "2006-08-15T18:47:38Z")
I’m a Doctor of Obscure Recording Knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/95 "2006-08-15T18:53:52Z")
Art History (wrote on context of some 15th-c European paintings). I’m usually a little embarassed by its painfully “useless” humanitiesness, but Dr Drake wins here (thank god for Folklore studies to make art historians feel mainstream!). ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/96 "2006-08-15T19:40:48Z")
One day, in poli-sci 101 class, an administration person came in to tell us that “Dr. Porter will be late…” We students were rather confused at this, until she explained to us about the JD thing. We knew our teacher was a lawyer (and a state assemblyman, to boot!). [QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I’ve got a doctor of philosophy degree, notwithstanding that I understand philosophy a little bit less well than I understand the estrous cycle of the orangutan. [/QUOTE] That just shows that you deserved the degree, because you’ve been able to show that you don’t understand philsophy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/97 "2006-08-15T19:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] All of my professors, including my JSD law professors, were addressed as “professor.” [/QUOTE] Well, professor is a more prestigious title than doctor. Lots of people get to earn the title “doctor;” far fewer earn the right to be called “professor.” Obtaining and holding a professorship is more challenging than earning the terminal degree. The tenure process is typically quite ruthless. I hold a Doctor of Musical Arts in Composition. Don’t wonder much about why it’s not a PhD: there are PhDs is musical composition, but there is little consistent difference nationwide between the two degrees. Some schools offer both a DMA and PhD in composition; in those cases, the PhD usually requires a more rigorous theoretical dissertation. To some extent this is true in other places, but again not consistently. Am I entitled to the title “doctor”? Absolutely! Of course I don’t insist on it, and no one calls me that, excepting primarily students, and secondarily other academicians referring to me in front of students. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/98 "2006-08-15T21:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=Knorf] Well, professor is a more prestigious title than doctor. Lots of people get to earn the title “doctor;” far fewer earn the right to be called “professor.” Obtaining and holding a professorship is more challenging than earning the terminal degree. The tenure process is typically quite ruthless. [/QUOTE] Well, yes, that’s true. The actual job title/rank of “professor” is rather exclusive. However, on this campus (and others I have been on), it’s regularly used as a title of respect for the person at the front of the classroom–which does not necessarily reflect one’s tenure and rank status. It’s just the conventional way to address faculty. I’ve heard assistant professors addressed as “Professor Johnson,” for example. When I was teaching (before I even had the PhD) I had students call me “Professor” (I quickly established the first-name basis thing, but this happened in those early weeks). Is it unusual that I address my dentist as “Dr.?” I’ve always used that title for dentists as well as M.D.s. Veterinarians too, come to think of it. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/99 "2006-08-15T21:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, professor is a more prestigious title than doctor. Assistant professors, associate professors, and even lecturers are commonly given the courtesy title “professor” by their students, and they are not necessarily holders of tenure, or even on a tenure track. So “professor” is more prestigious to whom? This is my point. The fine distinctions as to which of these titles are “more prestigious” than others, and who is or is not “entitled” to hold them, are subjects that really only matters to people who _already_ hold them and, dammit, want people to _know_ they hold them – and, by extension, do not want them extended to others who _don’t_ hold the same degree or level of degree, because that other person “didn’t work hard enough” and “doesn’t deserve it.” It’s all just so much navel-gazing, because the reality is that to most other people (at least in America), a “professor” is a person who teaches at the university, and a “doctor” is a physician, and they are not inquiring any further than that. Again, I have no problem in any person, proud of their education and degree, deciding to call themselves by whatever title they see fit. I just find it sort of silly when they go one step further to deciding who is _not_ entitled to use the title – because there is almost always going to be someone else who will in turn look at _them_ and say “no, you’re not entitled to use it, either, only _we_ are.” But at least where PhDs are concerned there is some societal recognition that they _may_ decide to call themselves doctors. There is no such recognition for lawyers. Lawyers who call themselves “doctor” engage in silliness of the highest level and are widely mocked by their peers. I don’t know any lawyer who does this and don’t even recall it being done by anyone in my professional acquaintance, ever. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552/100 "2006-08-15T21:24:46Z")
I have a PhD in materials engineering and a JD. I don’t call myself doctor. I have always subscribed to the adage that PhDs are like noses - it’s only conspicuous when you don’t have one. Hey, I worked with two MD/PhD/JDs, neither of whom used doctor, because they weren’t actually practicing medicine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-doctor/368552.md?page=6)