# Are You a Good Person? Documentary that discusses this subject and Abortion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998 "2011-12-21T21:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/21 "2011-12-21T21:58:37Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > I’d like to share and discuss this video (documentary/movie) that was released a couple of months ago. As you’ll see, it can either make a person think, or if they’re strongly entrenched in their views, it can make them more encouraged or possibly very angry. The way it tries to get it’s message across is by trying to get people to think of the subject in a different light. Believe it or not, most people who have a strong opinion about abortion _have_ thought about it. And comparing it to the holocaust is not a remotely new or different light. In fact, if a baby died in utero every time someone made that comparison, there’d be no one left to argue within a generation. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/22 "2011-12-21T22:00:25Z")
I made it to ten minutes. The neo-nazi with the mohawk and the facial tattoos is a bit special. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/23 "2011-12-21T22:05:20Z")
So he’s arguing that my Jewish mom’s decision to get an abortion after she was raped is exactly the same thing as Hitler’s decision to murder lots of Jews? And if you don’t agree with that idiotic and deeply offensive analogy you are a bad person? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/24 "2011-12-21T22:10:53Z")
Damn **Bryan Ekers** , I admire your willingness to help out the noob. Just as an FYI **lockmat** , **Bryan Ekers** is kind of doing your work for you here. It’s sort of unwritten policy for the OP to present the compelling issues they found in the source material and start a discussion, making the best argument for their case and inviting other to present their viewpoints for debate. ---
**Author:** ![lockmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@lockmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lockmat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/25 "2011-12-21T22:11:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Welcome to the board, **lockmat**. I don’t have time to watch the video either, and it’s not really reasonable to expect everybody to sit there and watch it for half an hour before discussing the issues. Will you please post a summary of the video or at least its key points? Hi, thanks for the welcome. And will do… It begins by asking Americans (many educated) if they know who Adolf Hitler is. Some say no (never even heard of him), some say yes and even give brief understandings. It goes on to ask some of the same people if they could go back in time, they’ve got a high-powered rifle and they’ve got Hitler in their sights, would they pull the trigger. Most people say yes. Then he asks if they could go back 30 years earlier when Adolf was in his mothers womb, would they kill her, to kill him. Again, the people shown say yes. He also gives a scenario: there’s a pile of dead Jews, some of them are alive. A Nazi soldier tells you to use a bulldozer to bury them alive and if you don’t he’ll kill you. Would you do it? Some says yes, others no. For the ones that say yes, he asks them a similar scenario where the soldier asks them to use a gun to shoot and kill a bunch of Jews. The same people that said yes to the bulldozer say no to the shooting, because it is harder to do that. I think he’s trying to make the comparison (not stated in the movie) that some people think it’s ok to kill a baby in the first trimester, but not the third. He’s also lets them know that it’s actually kind of more merciful to shoot them than to bury them. So he asks people then, “So do you value human life.” They say yes. He then tries to show them inconsistencies in their thinking, for instance. One person says, (paraphrase)“I don’t think abortion is something you should just do, it’s something you need to think about.” The interviewer says, "Isn’t that kind of like saying, ““It’s ok to kill those Jews, just give it some thought.”” One of his main questions is asking people to finish this sentence, “It’s okay to kill a baby in the womb when…” The peopleeople go on to give their opinions. One lady says she is against abortion but thinks it’s ok for others. The interviewer says, “So you’re saying, it’s not ok for me to kill those Jews, but it’s ok for someone else to.” The lady responds with a ,“yes.” There’s too much to write, but that’s a lot of what he says. Some of the people end up changing their stance on abortion. * * * His second topic is the gospel. He asks people: Have you lied? Have you stolen something? Have you lusted (Jesus says if you lust at a woman in your heart you’ve already committed adultery with her in your heart.)? Have you used God’s name in vain. They all admit to do these things (as we all have, no?). So he asks them, what do you call someone who steals (they say, a liar), someone who’s stolen something (a theif) etc. He let’s them know, “by you own admission, you are a liar, theif, adulterer blasphemer at heart. If you stand before God on judgement day, will he let you in based on your actions?” As Bryan Ekers notes about the neo-nazi, Steven, whom says, “Don’t you think it’s funny that God would put a good person like me in hell?” The interviewer responds with, “But if a criminal stands before a judge and says I’m a good person, the judge is still going to throw the book at him.” The point is, no matter how “good” we are in our own eyes, or if we’ve done multiple good things in our life, we’ve still broken God’s law, and like a good judge will do, he will give the proper punishment. **The main message of course is, Jesus paid our fine (by dying on the cross) to the judge for us, legally excusing us from God’s judgement/wrath. And if we believe in Jesus, confess our sins and repent (turn from them), we have salvation.** ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/26 "2011-12-21T22:12:18Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > Also, the ministry behind the video passed out 180,000 of the videos on college campuses in one day and they’re also beginning to pass them out on public sidewalks outside high school campuses. As the video noted what Hitler said, (paraphrasing, possibly a bad one) “those who influence the children have the future.” Their intent is not to deceive the young adults, but to get them to think. Our culture feeds us world views without even encouraging or asking us to think about it. That’s what this video is trying to do. Back in my day, all we had for them was _The Four Spiritual Laws_ and we liked it! Okay, not really, nobody really liked it. I’m skeptical that handing out a 30-minute video will change anybody’s mind. What we really need to do to reduce abortions is not to make them illegal but to make them less necessary. Provide young unwed mothers with more resources to avoide pregnancy, and provide reasonable alternatives (like child care, health care, adoption assistance, or social services) to those who find themselves pregnant anyway. Women only choose abortion because it seems to be their best choice; the solution is not to take away that option (because you can’t) but to give her _better_ options. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/27 "2011-12-21T22:13:47Z")
Okay, saw the whole thing. What I’d like to do now is have a 30-minute discussion with the video’s host, Ray Comfort, but with my own cameras present so I’d have an unedited version of the chat. ---
**Author:** ![lockmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@lockmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lockmat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/28 "2011-12-21T22:17:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Honest question: why pass out 30 minute videos when it would honestly be better to pass out condoms, or even a little treatise on waiting to have children? Because shockingly enough those of us who accept abortion don’t feel you should never have kids - we just feel you should have kids when you’re good and ready. Not when you’re seventeen and unwed. Well, I think because even if people have condoms, they can still get pregnant. If we encourage them to wait, they may not. People who want to have kids when they’re ready can still have an abortion. All these people can still have abortions and vote for people who support it. None of these ways help save an unborn babies life. If we can change people’s minds about abortion, then no matter what happens (rape, unwanted pregnancy, sex before marriage, don’t currently want a baby, anything), we can still save a babies life. The scenario won’t matter, the decision will. Also, a dual purpose for the video is to share the gospel (really the main purpose, because people who change their mind about abortion but not on Jesus, still receive God’s judgement according to the bible). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/29 "2011-12-21T22:17:53Z")
The ADL has this to say about this idiotic and offensive piece of propaganda: > [@](#): > > [http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa\_52/6159\_52.htm](http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/6159_52.htm) > The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today derided as “cynical and perverse” a movie that unequivocally compares the murder of millions of Jews and others in the Holocaust to women having abortions in the United States, calling the film “one of the most offensive and outrageous abuses of the memory of the Holocaust we have seen in years.” Ray Comfort can kiss my Jewish ass. People who cannot tell the difference between an actual living, breathing human being and a fertilized egg are morally bankrupt nut cases. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/30 "2011-12-21T22:22:53Z")
Since this isn’t the forum for movie reviews, are we debating Hitler, abortions, aborting Hitler, or what exactly? What idea are you trying to get across here, **lockmat**? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/31 "2011-12-21T22:23:31Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > I think he’s trying to make the comparison (not stated in the movie) that some people think it’s ok to kill a baby in the first trimester, but not the third. Based on your summary, no, I don’t think that’s what he’s doing. It sounds like he is trying to show that people find impersonal mass killing more tolerable than killing an individual up close. > [@](#): > > The interviewer says, "Isn’t that kind of like saying, ““It’s ok to kill those Jews, just give it some thought.”” No, it’s not kind of like that. The comparison is so vile that I’m not sure it’s worthwhile to explain it. If you didn’t see it for yourself, I don’t know if anybody else could make you see it. Do you actually think this is a sensible comparison? > [@](#): > > One lady says she is against abortion but thinks it’s ok for others. The interviewer says, “So you’re saying, it’s not ok for me to kill those Jews, but it’s ok for someone else to.” The lady responds with a ,“yes.” Same thing. I’ll skip over all the Jesus stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/32 "2011-12-21T22:24:32Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > Some of the people end up changing their stance on abortion. Well, maybe. I get the impression they’re like blades of grass blowing in the wind. It might give Comfort a feeling of, well, comfort, to think he’s bending them to his will, but tomorrow some other windbag will blow them in another direction. There were a _few_ subjects that seemed more willful - the Asian women wearing the grey makeup, the lesbian woman, the Heidi-chick… but the video’s editing process has, I expect, discarded their answers to Comfort’s specious arguments. Has he ever gone up against someone who was intelligent, composed _and_ prepared… and is there unedited video of the encounter? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/33 "2011-12-21T22:27:20Z")
Do you want to punish women for having sex? Do you want to condemn children to be born to parents who don’t want them and are financially and emotionally unprepared for parenthood? Do you claim to want to reduce abortions but fight any attempt at sex education or distribution of contraceptives, revealing yourself as really only interested in yelling at people outside of doctors’ offices? Do you, perhaps, also cheer wildly at the concept of death, think that slaughtering Arabs for sport is great, and get a little aroused whenever a gay teenager is beaten by his classmates? What I’m getting at is…are YOU a good person? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/34 "2011-12-21T22:28:46Z")
Afterthought: Comfort says a few times that the womb is “the safest place” for a fetus/baby/child/ whatever. I’d’ve pointed out that the womb is only safe when the _mother_ is safe, and all evidence indicates that she is most safe in cultures that are liberalized, democratic and wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/35 "2011-12-21T22:30:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Comfort says a few times that the womb is “the safest place” for a fetus/baby/child/ whatever. I really can’t imagine what point he’s trying to make here. Is he suggesting we leave them there until they’re 18? If you want to abort it, you’re clearly unconcerned with its safety. And if you don’t, what alternatives to the womb were you considering? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/36 "2011-12-21T22:32:01Z")
Many thanks to **Bryan Ekers** for throwing himself on the grenade to save the rest of the squad! It would be fairly easy for an amateur filmmaker to create a 30 minute documentary involving interviews with several women who were pregnant and didn’t want to be and were fighting against an intrusive bureaucracy that was preventing them from exercising their choice… But who’d want to watch it? And who’d be persuaded by it? One of the interesting things about the never-ending abortion debate is how many metaphors have been attempted. Hitler, parasitism, an intruder in a house, a guest invited into the house, an elderly relative on life-support, a poor person on welfare, etc. The metaphors are usually intended to shed light on one’s personal preference in the matter. A pro-choice person is more likely to use the “parasite” metaphor; a pro-life person is more likely to use the “guest invited into the house” metaphor. The comparisons all break down, because there really isn’t anything comparable. Ultimately, everybody has to make their own moral decision…which is why I favor the “pro-choice” viewpoint. I respect the moral viewpoint of those who believe my viewpoint is wrong. Disagreement is the life’s blood of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![lockmat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@lockmat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lockmat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/37 "2011-12-21T22:32:29Z")
Alright, I’m a fast typer, but not that fast. A lof of questions and my fingers won’t work as fast as my mind, so there will be thoughts left out unintentionally. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > A fetus is a baby is a person. Abortion in the US = The Holocaust. > > Did I get that right? Much less than 30 minutes. Pretty much. > [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, I saw and I appreciate that. But since **lockmat** is the one who started the thread, I’d like him to offer his own version of what the video is about. We discourage threads of this type and the burden of explaining the topic should be on the OP, not on Dopers who volunteer to watch it for everybody else. I’m sorry. I was wondering if y’all discouraged these types of threads. I did not read the terms and conditions when I registered. I just figured it if I put it in the correct forum and was not solely trying to be devisive, it’d be ok. And sorry it took me so long to give a synopsis, guess I’m not as quick a typer as I thought. > [@DianaG](#): > > Believe it or not, most people who have a strong opinion about abortion _have_ thought about it. > > And comparing it to the holocaust is not a remotely new or different light. In fact, if a baby died in utero every time someone made that comparison, there’d be no one left to argue within a generation. Sorry, did not intend to say that people who have come to conclusions have never thought through it. I agree, many have, but I believe many have not. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > So he’s arguing that my Jewish mom’s decision to get an abortion after she was raped is exactly the same thing as Hitler’s decision to murder lots of Jews? And if you don’t agree with that idiotic and deeply offensive analogy you are a bad person? > > :rolleyes: No, he does not equate that to being a bad person. Part of the movie is trying to explain that although we may be a “good” person, we’ve all broken God’s law and the consequence of breaking his law (just as it is on this earth) is to receive punishment for it. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, saw the whole thing. What I’d like to do now is have a 30-minute discussion with the video’s host, Ray Comfort, but with my own cameras present so I’d have an unedited version of the chat. No doubt there are many people, just as there are on this board, whom he interviewed and said some of the same things some of you may say and disagreed. His point is not to make people believe that if you simply present people with these facts that they’ll change their mind. Some will, some won’t. The point is to show that, coming to these conclusions, people will change their minds, so those are the people he showed. If you search for Full Interview Alicia on youtube, they have that one posted. Of course, I’m sure you want to see the ones with people disagreeing, although he does show many people disagreeing with him. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/38 "2011-12-21T22:32:39Z")
Wow, conservative evangelical makes film comparing abortion to the Holocaust. _Yawn_ ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/39 "2011-12-21T22:34:12Z")
I imagine that every baby aborted is another Hitler, ready and willing to spring out of the womb fully formed (mustache too!) and kill some Jews. Abortion is not only a moral good, it should be forced on everyone because it prevents another Hitler from being born. And you’re not for Hitler, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/40 "2011-12-21T22:37:43Z")
Can I be a “Good Person” if I am not a Christian, **lockmat**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=3)