# Are You a Good Person? Documentary that discusses this subject and Abortion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998 "2011-12-21T21:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/61 "2011-12-21T23:27:28Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > The pro-choice stance is that it’s a woman’s right to choose to kill her own baby because it’s her baby, right? Not at all. If that were my stance, my daughter would have been born, but NEVER reached 21, I assure you. The pro-choice stance is simply that my body is mine, and no other person has the right to ride it for free. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/62 "2011-12-21T23:28:56Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The pro-choice stance is simply that my body is mine, and no other person has the right to ride it for free. That’s not _quite_ the way a lot of pro-choice people would summarize it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/63 "2011-12-21T23:30:26Z")
“Sorry, I have to charge. It’s my policy.” ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/64 "2011-12-21T23:31:22Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > I like this quote: > Something nonhuman does not become human by getting older and bigger; whatever is human must be human from the beginning. I don’t know a single pro-choice person (and I know a LOT) who says a fetus/zygote isn’t human. It’s very much human. What it isn’t is a _person_; it cannot think, or feel, and has no rights. > [@](#): > > To discuss abortions and the gospel of Christ. You are in the right place for it, but I think you might do better to choose one debate subject. This is a bit confusing. > [@](#): > > Condemn? No? There are waiting lists of people who want to adopt. The parents may not want them, but others do. There are a great many children waiting in foster care to be adopted, not to mention that it isn’t anyone’s job to provide babies for the childless. > [@](#): > > I have never protested outside a dr.s office, neither do I advocate it, nor do I advocate violence in opposing abortion. Good! > [@](#): > > Also, as I said, someone who uses a condom can still get pregnant and have an abortion. But they are FAR less likely to get pregnant. You realize that, correct? > [@](#): > > In God’s eyes (and mine), no I am not a good person. I can be very selfish at times, but I am fighting it. I do not claim to be a good person. ## God doesn’t exist. You sound like a pretty good person. > [@](#): > > The pro-choice stance is that it’s a woman’s right to choose to kill her own baby because it’s her baby, right? No. The pro-choice stance is varied, but basically- it isn’t a baby, and even if it isn’t, since it’s the woman’s body, she gets to decide what to do with it. > [@](#): > > A couple of things to think about: > > - A baby looks very much like a baby at only six weeks. No, it really, really doesn’t. Who told you that? > [@](#): > > - Parents legally have parental rights up to the the age of 18. At what point do we stop giving parents rights to kill their child? Right now they are allowed to kill their child while it is in the womb. What is the difference between a baby inside the womb and one that is out of it, besides the fact that it’s in the womb? Are they both not human? If they are both human, why do we not allow parents the right to kill their child up to 18 years old. It is after all, \*their \*child. The difference is personhood. Out of the womb you have it, in you don’t. > [@](#): > > - Also, this is ironic. If someone murders a woman who is pregnant, he is not only guilty of killing the woman, but also the baby. Why is it ok for the woman to kill it on her own if she desires, simply because it is her own? So a woman who is on her way to get an abortion will not be punished for killing her child. Yet the man who kills her and the baby while she is on her way to kill it will be guilty of both. Many pro-choice advocates disagree with their laws, and they are more nuanced than you make out here > [@](#): > > - It is important to understand I am against the murder of human **life** (not simply a baby). It is scientific fact that human life begins at conception. Human life began many millions of years ago, and has been ongoing ever since. Abortion has done very little to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/65 "2011-12-21T23:35:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not _quite_ the way a lot of pro-choice people would summarize it. 😉 Why? I’ll never understand the objection to this. I mean, I suppose it’s nice to be all high-minded about preventing poverty and abused children and yadda yadda, but at the end of the day, if you’re really concerned with anyone’s rights, bodily sovereignty should be pretty high on your list of important things. Of course, anyone is welcome to summarize it any way they like, but I generally aim for brevity. No reason to waste words on people who are never going to agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Enlightening\_Meditation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecc23a/32.png) [@Enlightening\_Meditation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enlightening_Meditation)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/66 "2011-12-21T23:36:39Z")
I met some anti-abortion protesters in college about 10 years ago who would hold up signs and posters comparing women to Hitler, equating abortion with genocide, displaying dead fetus photos. It was apparent (after talking to them) that they wanted gov’t to outlaw all form of abortion, to investigate every miscarriage or possible abortion, to outlaw some forms of birth control, et cetera all in the name of Jesus. The rhetoric of their ilk is nothing new. Even the pro-life Christian groups on campus were openly critical (in the campus newspaper) of these tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/67 "2011-12-21T23:38:52Z")
My hair is human, and the root is even alive. If you try to pass a law that says I can’t pluck out the hairs on my arm when I’m bored well, you’ll have to pry my plucking fingers from my cold dead hand. I have a drawring of a baby. Very realistic. Oh right, it doesn’t think either and if I want to burn it to make room in my basement I’ll do that if it suits me. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/68 "2011-12-21T23:39:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Why? I’ll never understand the objection to this. I mean, I suppose it’s nice to be all high-minded about preventing poverty and abused children and yadda yadda, but at the end of the day, if you’re really concerned with anyone’s rights, bodily sovereignty should be pretty high on your list of important things. > > Of course, anyone is welcome to summarize it any way they like, but I generally aim for brevity. No reason to waste words on people who are never going to agree with you. Whoooooosh! ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/69 "2011-12-21T23:43:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since this isn’t the forum for movie reviews, are we debating Hitler, abortions, aborting Hitler, or what exactly? What idea are you trying to get across here, **lockmat**? Why is it that after reading your post I can hear in my head an announcer saying: "And now from the director of _Chasing Amy_, a new film starring Ben Affleck and Matt Damon: _Aborting Hitler!_🙂 > [@lockmat](#): > > What is the difference between a baby inside the womb and one that is out of it, besides the fact that it’s in the womb? Eh? What is the difference between A and B except that A != B. What? ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/70 "2011-12-21T23:48:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since this isn’t the forum for movie reviews, are we debating Hitler, abortions, aborting Hitler, or what exactly? What idea are you trying to get across here, **lockmat**? That we all need to either be fundamentalist Christians of his specific sect or be forced by law to act as though we were. Also that if we don’t want to we are all people he dislikes as much as is possible for him to dislike someone. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/71 "2011-12-21T23:49:02Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Whoooooosh! :smack: I claim a long day and a head cold. I also endorse the legalization of prostitution, for what that’s worth. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/72 "2011-12-21T23:51:05Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > What is the difference between a baby inside the womb and one that is out of it, besides the fact that it’s in the womb? Missed this earlier. Well, light and temperature differentials aside, I guess not much, to the baby. You really need to get past this idea that it’s all about the baby. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/73 "2011-12-21T23:56:38Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Missed this earlier. > > None, I guess, to the baby. > > You really need to get past this idea that it’s all about the baby. I’m actually fine with laws that prevent 3rd trimester abortions that don’t threaten the life of the mother. I don’t advocate for them but they wouldn’t bother me if they existed (and they do in many places). If you don’t know you’re pregnant by then by the way… Society has failed you utterly and you haven’t made up for it in any meaningful way. A baby past 36 weeks and many times a bit earlier is viable for birth so saying that killing that baby is wrong after birth but killing a baby in the womb at 42 is fine is pretty silly. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/74 "2011-12-22T00:00:20Z")
> [@Untoward\_Parable](#): > > A baby past 36 weeks and many times a bit earlier is viable for birth so saying that killing that baby is wrong after birth but killing a baby in the womb at 42 is fine is pretty silly. Not necessarily. Fatal genetic defects can be discovered that late, medical issues can crop up with the mother, or the fetus can be dead. And forcing a woman to carry a corpse inside her for a month is disgusting. And birth is much more painful & physically traumatic than abortion, so there’s a difference any time up to birth. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/75 "2011-12-22T00:02:51Z")
Not as silly as saying that because it reached a certain age, NOW it has a right to hang occupy my will against my womb. There’s no statute of limitations on my ownership of my womb. I’d be okay with laws saying that every attempt must be made to deliver a healthy 36 week fetus _alive_ if the mother wants it out. But if she wants it out, out it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/76 "2011-12-22T00:15:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not necessarily. Fatal genetic defects can be discovered that late, medical issues can crop up with the mother, or the fetus can be dead. And forcing a woman to carry a corpse inside her for a month is disgusting. > > And birth is much more painful & physically traumatic than abortion, so there’s a difference any time up to birth. Well ya, but you’re splitting hairs. Obviously I don’t disagree but I’m not actually scripting the laws I’d be ok with atm so undue detail makes for arguments that are a little overly embellished to get across my point. I never said there was no difference for the mother, obviously delivering is rough but I think on balance it’s an ok spot to be at. I’d also be fine with no such law existing and total control for the mother being the case with that stipulation that if the baby is old enough to live outside the womb go ahead and just take it out early and incubate or whatever needs to be done. > [@DianaG](#): > > Not as silly as saying that because it reached a certain age, NOW it has a right to hang occupy my will against my womb. There’s no statute of limitations on my ownership of my womb. > > I’d be okay with laws saying that every attempt must be made to deliver a healthy 36 week fetus _alive_ if the mother wants it out. But if she wants it out, out it goes. The whole, my womb is my castle thing becomes much less sympathetic to me after the 2nd trimester since you’re a pretty dull penny if you don’t realize you’re pregnant by then or are too indecisive to abort before then. Again I’m fine with society deciding either way at that point and would not be offended by it leaning either way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/77 "2011-12-22T00:34:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can I be a “Good Person” if I am not a Christian, lockmat? > [@lockmat](#): > > You can do things that are good. A criminal can be a criminal and still do good things, no? Way to dodge the question. Try again, this time with a straight answer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/78 "2011-12-22T00:37:36Z")
Actually, given Ray Comfort’s statements in the video, I have to wonder who _would_ be a “good person”. He’s eager to break down his subjects by “proving” them to be liars, thieves, blasphemers, adulterers and harlots, if they’ve _ever_ lied, stolen, used God’s name in vain, looked at someone with lust, and so forth. What kind of pathetic, bloodless, bland, useless, robotic person could pass such a test? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/79 "2011-12-22T00:40:57Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Ray Comfort can kiss my Jewish ass. People who cannot tell the difference between an actual living, breathing human being and a fertilized egg are morally bankrupt nut cases. > [@lockmat](#): > > The pro-choice stance is that it’s a woman’s right to choose to kill her own baby because it’s her baby, right? > … > It is scientific fact that human life begins at conception. No, that is just wrong. The pro-choice stand is that is that it should be the mother’s choice whether or not to carry the fetus to term. No, it is not a scientific fact that human life begins at conception. That is wrong. Someone has played upon your goodness of heart to enlist you to spread lies. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/80 "2011-12-22T00:57:53Z")
@ **lockmat** , Do you think all chemical birth control should be illegal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=5)