# Are You a Good Person? Documentary that discusses this subject and Abortion. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998 "2011-12-21T21:17:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/101 "2011-12-22T05:34:49Z")
If it helps, I’m pro-choice and I’m an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/102 "2011-12-22T05:52:15Z")
Ah, the “Banana Man” and his take on something other than evolution. Does he drop the ball as miserably as he did in that field? Yes, yes he does! Five minutes was enough for me; I generally don’t listen to blithering _idiots_ longer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/103 "2011-12-22T06:02:35Z")
OK, I made it through 15 minutes. Basically, Hitler killed a lot of people in the Holocaust, therefor abortion is wrong. Not very compelling. Kind of like “kittens are cute, so you have to give me ten thousand dollars. What, you won’t give me the money? Why do you hate kittens?” Also, where did he find so many very very stupid people? Is there lead in the water supply there or something. And where the hell was Kirk Cameron? did they have a falling out? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/104 "2011-12-22T06:21:07Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > If it helps, I’m pro-choice and I’m an asshole. Can’t be! Real assholes never admit that they’re assholes! It’s something like all Cretans being liars…I think… ---
**Author:** ![Untoward\_Parable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Untoward\_Parable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Untoward_Parable)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/105 "2011-12-22T06:46:43Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Can’t be! Real assholes never admit that they’re assholes! > > It’s something like all Cretans being liars…I think… I am def an asshole, and I hate anti-choice folks. Some would argue that since I am not absolutely pro-choice ovaries to the wall in all circumstances that I am anti-choice myself. Therefore I hate myself. Turns out I hate assholes too. Dammit, it never ends. Does the loop repeat infinitely? Do I have infinite hate for myself? Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/106 "2011-12-22T07:30:39Z")
The webpage says the “A shocking, award-winning documentary!” I find it shocking that it won any awards. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/107 "2011-12-22T07:38:16Z")
“Isn’t that like saying ‘What Hitler did was wrong but it’s his choice’”? No, it’s not like that at all, it’s not even close to that. And I can _easily_ finish the sentence “It’s ok to kill a child in the womb when…” “…the woman who owns the womb doesn’t want the fetus in it to remain there any longer.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/108 "2011-12-22T07:39:26Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > AI’m sorry. I was wondering if y’all discouraged these types of threads. I did not read the terms and conditions when I registered. Dude, owners of message boards do not make a page on “terms and conditions” because they enjoying typing for its own sake. _You are supposed to read them_. > [@](#): > > Sorry, did not intend to say that people who have come to conclusions have never thought through it. I agree, many have, but I believe many have not. I have thought about this. One of my conclusions is that dragging the Jews and the holocaust into the abortion debate is really effing offensive to me. Why don’t they ever compare abortion to, say, the seige of Lenningrad or the massacre of Tutsis by neighboring Hutus? Maybe its just I’m tired of hearing folks use the _murder of my relatives_ as strawmen in debates. To YOU they’re just “the Jews”. To ME they are my family. Individuals. People in pictures I never got to meet. And before you liken that to abortion - they weren’t aborted. They were murdered. They weren’t a scrap of tissue incapable of independent life, they were fully grown people. They weren’t potential, they were actual. They weren’t theory, they were reality. _Please stop dragging them into your debates_. It causes me, and many other people, pain when you do this. Do good people deliberately cause pain to others? Are you a good person? > [@](#): > > If you search for Full Interview Alicia on youtube, they have that one posted. If I didn’t want to watch your first video why would I want to click on yet more videos? This is a text-based forum. You might want to try words. ETA: And while it might have been tempting to shoot Adolf, I’d never consider murdering his mother to prevent his birth. SHE did not commit crimes, he did. We don’t execute parents for the crimes of their children. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/109 "2011-12-22T09:22:53Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Also, where did he find so many very very stupid people? Is there lead in the water supply there or something. Heck, Jay Leno finds similar legions of doofi on his walkabouts. > [@Broomstick](#): > > ETA: And while it might have been tempting to shoot Adolf, I’d never consider murdering his mother to prevent his birth. SHE did not commit crimes, he did. We don’t execute parents for the crimes of their children. Well, if that was the _one_ opportunity you had to affect history, to shoot her in late 1888 or early 1889… Thing is, I’d be hesitant to make _any_ changes, and not because of some particular moral calculus of who deserves what, but just in recognizing the possibility that simply taking Hitler out (well, and his mom) might make things worse. I’d assume World War 1 happens regardless, the Great Depression, the rise of Fascism in Italy… none of these are dependent on Hitler’s presence, nor was he alone in bringing fascism to Germany. It’s not inconceivable that WW2 happens _anyway_, but with a more competent Fuhrer in charge. Ernst Röhm, maybe? There are any number of possible scenarios that have comparable or worse endings. If I was really determined to cancel WW2, I think I’d have to take out more than just one guy (and his mom). It’s completely useless as an analog to abortion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/110 "2011-12-22T10:18:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > ETA: And while it might have been tempting to shoot Adolf, I’d never consider murdering his mother to prevent his birth. SHE did not commit crimes, he did. We don’t execute parents for the crimes of their children. I’d shoot her in a heartbeat to prevent that child’s crimes. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > y\* changes, and not because of some particular moral calculus of who deserves what, but just in recognizing the possibility that simply taking Hitler out (well, and his mom) might make things worse. Hard to imagine how it could possibly have been worse. I’ve known details of the Holocaust since I was very young and still, every now and again I find myself thinking “Really?? SERIOUSLY? How the FUCK did that happen???” Talk about boggling the mind… Then again, I find myself thinking that about Rawanda, too. Some things are just so completely and utterly insane I can’t ever get comfortable with the fact that they happened. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/111 "2011-12-22T10:43:40Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Hard to imagine how it could possibly have been worse. I’ve known details of the Holocaust since I was very young and still, every now and again I find myself thinking “Really?? SERIOUSLY? How the FUCK did that happen???” Talk about boggling the mind… Well, maybe under more competent leadership the Germans do better against the Soviets… Heck, if a Hitler-free Germany doesn’t see the rise of Nazism, maybe German communists take control and since luminaries like Einstein and Lise Meitner end up working alongside Heisenberg, Germany gets the A-Bomb first. I suppose the safest thing would be to insist on being able to take a mulligan if killing Hitler makes things worse. Anyway, I’m an atheist pro-choicer and a good person and screw anybody who wants to claim different. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/112 "2011-12-22T11:34:17Z")
> [@lockmat](#): > > … Please provide feedback, critiques and personal thoughts. … No crocoducks (and no bananas)? I R the sadderest. ☹ CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/113 "2011-12-22T11:56:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, saw the whole thing. What I’d like to do now is have a 30-minute discussion with the video’s host, Ray Comfort, but with my own cameras present so I’d have an unedited version of the chat. Ooh! Ask him about the bananas! ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/114 "2011-12-22T12:16:23Z")
Isn’t the Bible pretty clear that ‘life’ starts at first breath, not conception? Where did all this stuff about the sanctity of fertilized eggs come from anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/115 "2011-12-22T12:23:30Z")
If the fit of the banana in the human hand is evidence of God’s design, the extremely poor fit of a baby through a vagina must therefore be evidence that God never intended for a baby to be in a human female. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/116 "2011-12-22T12:35:09Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > **lockmat** , > > You did not answer my question. What punishment should my Jewish mother suffer in the name of your Christian beliefs because she had an abortion? Your theology is not mine. I am Reform Jewish. We do not believe a woman should be forced into a pregnancy nor do we believe that life begins at conception. Why should YOUR religious beliefs overrule ours? Particularly in so private a matter? If you’re going to have the unbelievable chutzpah to evoke Jewish history for your own twisted ends you should at least know something about the subject. To be fair, I think a case can be made that a fetus is distinctly human and living therefore deserves protection. Religion doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with it, that it often does is irrelevant. Ideas can and must stand on their own, I don’t get to say “black people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, that’s my religious conviction”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/117 "2011-12-22T12:54:55Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I’d shoot her in a heartbeat to prevent that child’s crimes. I would not, despite my family having suffered directly. I simply can not condone executing an innocent person. That would make me the same sort of monster the Nazis were. > [@](#): > > Hard to imagine how it could possibly have been worse. I’ve known details of the Holocaust since I was very young and still, every now and again I find myself thinking “Really?? SERIOUSLY? How the FUCK did that happen???” Talk about boggling the mind… As noted - with more competent leadership the Nazis might have won Europe and done a much more thorough job of exterminating the Jews of Europe and, oh yes, the Gypsies, and various other ethnicities/groups and the entire Slavic population either enslaved or dead. Hitler made a lot of stupid/foolish errors, which had something to do with the eventual downfall of the Third Reich. Yes, it could have been worse. Isn’t that an absolutely hellish thought? Hitler gets a lot of attention for being the figurehead, but if he hadn’t existed the Nazis still might have emerged and someone else could have been the Big Bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/118 "2011-12-22T13:27:50Z")
If it’s not too late - Ray Comfort apparently claimed in a promo for this video that it had such a powerful message, it would convert anti-life pro-abortionists _in thirty seconds_. [DO NOT WATCH THE VIDEO](http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/29/ray-comfort-is-a-fraud/)!!! \*"SPOILER ALERT! People who have seen the movie report that the argument goes like this: Hitler murdered Jews. Abortion kills babies. Therefore, abortion is just like the Holocaust. Yeah, Ray Comfort just pulled another idiotic argument out of his ass. So what else is new?"\* **lockmat** may be unaware that there was no freedom of choice as regards abortion (or virtually anything else) in Nazi Germany. Forced abortion, yes - but get caught aborting an Aryan fetus and you were in very deep trouble. Therefore _not getting an abortion is equivalent to the Holocaust_. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/119 "2011-12-22T14:00:50Z")
**Lockmat** - do you think that the babies who are aborted will go to Hell? If not, they go to Heaven, right? So isn’t it in the best interest of the parent to have an abortion, so as to guarantee that their baby goes to heaven? After all, the baby could grow up and become an atheist… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998/120 "2011-12-22T14:11:40Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > Isn’t the Bible pretty clear that ‘life’ starts at first breath, not conception? Do you have a “pretty clear” cite from the Bible that says this? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-good-person-documentary-that-discusses-this-subject-and-abortion/606998.md?page=7)