# Are you a rich liberal or a poor conservative? If so, explain why. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289 "2016-12-09T16:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/41 "2016-12-10T15:38:59Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > There is a reason why they are called “conservative”. The word means an inclination to retain the status quo. The status quo is just fine for those who are already rich, or those who are (or whose husbands are) of a visible (i.e., “white”) hierarchical standing to be favored by the banking class. > > Conservatives are, simply put, racist. More racist than they were in the 1950s. They are thinking, That’s OK, we still have the economic power, but it is being threatened, and we’d better be careful it doesn’t slip from our grasp. Thank God, we have a political party on our side. > > People don’t vote money anymore, the way they did when all voters were white. They vote color now, in such a way that the money stays white. I think this definition of conservative is outdated, at least when it comes to US politics in this most recent election. By this definition, a conservative would have voted for Clinton, since she represented a continuation of the status quo of the last 8 years. I’m not sure what era Trump, or more importantly the Trump voter, thinks America was great, but it wasn’t 1992-2000 or 2008-2016. I think the Republican rejection of more traditional Republicans like Jeb and Kasich shows they weren’t thinking of 2000-2008 either. They probably weren’t thinking of the Nixon years with his (what would now be now Democratic) policies such as opening trade with China and supporting a clean environment. Even Eisenhower era policies like favoring big government projects such as creating the interstate system or forcibly integrating schools seem like they’re right out when it comes to Trump and his voters. I think to truly find a status quo that Trump represents, you would have to go back to at least Herbert Hoover. I think if you have to go that far back, it’s no longer being conservative, it’s being reactionary. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/42 "2016-12-10T16:56:44Z")
“A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.” —Napoleon Bonaparte ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/43 "2016-12-10T17:37:33Z")
Neither. I despise both rich liberals and poor conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/44 "2016-12-10T20:55:39Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I think this definition of conservative is outdated, at least when it comes to US politics in this most recent election. > … > I think if you have to go that far back, it’s no longer being conservative, it’s being reactionary. Well said. Bravo. I’ve held for awhile now that the political scientists and the punditocracy should’ve been using the term “reactionary” to describe what passes for mainstream R-ism for about the last 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/45 "2016-12-10T21:00:17Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Neither. I despise both rich liberals and poor conservatives. Sounds to me like maybe you’ve bought into the pernicious idea that all politics is simply about economics. That’s a pretty artificial, narrow, and crabbed viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/46 "2016-12-11T05:45:26Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > I’ve been a “rich liberal” by that definition some years, and not others. Why? Because I’m often “rich” by your provided definition, and I’m liberal. > > The reasons why I’m liberal aren’t really affected by my income. I’m in favor of social and civil rights for everybody, the curtailing of religion in government and the curtailing of government interfering the in the religion of individuals, free speech, all that stuff. > > I believe that “Big Government” is too often conflated with “Wasteful Government.” I want my government big: it’s the only organization of the scope necessary to provide health care to an entire country, provide services like schools, police, fire, infrastructure, etc. that have no “free market” way to fund themselves, and when unemployment is high, it can be the employer of last resort to do all those things. > > I believe that the reason more people aren’t “successful” isn’t because of widespread laziness (and definitely don’t believe that “laziness” is caused by skin color or what papers you posses), but because there are so many obstacles that can completely devastate a poor person trying to rise, but are almost unnoticeable to rich folks–to the point where “we” forget these obstacles exist. The purpose of government should be–before anything else–to provide sufficient nets to allow anyone facing such obstacles to overcome them and return to productiveness. And frankly, I don’t care if that means a small percentage can live in borderline poverty without working. Why should I? They don’t add up to enough to matter. > > Furthermore, I understand that these things take money, and that in the United States, that means that the wealthy (including me, if I’m “rich”) and corporations are going to have to be the ones to pay a high percentage of the costs. I’m really OK with that – too. The sorts of tax increases we’re talking about aren’t going to change the lifestyles of the ones we’re “taking” it from, but they’ll make a huge difference to the country. > > I disagree with many liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) on a few things: I see unions as a necessary evil rather than a relatively universal force for good; I think the US should join the rest of the world and completely eliminate the tax on money earned outside the US (both for citizens and corporations. I want Apple’s money, for example, back in the US and being spent a LOT more than I want to double-or-triple-tax them on it.) I frankly don’t consider an American’s right to a job to be greater than that of someone in another country, and that we need to put a lot more effort into being citizens of the world than encouraging us-or-them policies. > > I propose that policy should be set based on facts and evidence rather than religion, opinion, and discredited economic voodoo. > > Little or none of this is based on my income level, though. Get out of my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/47 "2016-12-11T06:40:58Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I used to be a poor conservative, but as I’ve progressed in my career, I can probably claim rich, and as the right has shifted further to the right, I’ve can probably claim liberal now. This describes me also. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/48 "2016-12-12T15:58:18Z")
Poor conservative. Economic growth is the only force that can ameliorate poverty over the long term. Redistribution slows economic growth. This sacrifices the future of the country for a small improvement in living standards now. Many times this small improvement in living standards does not show up and we have sacrificed the future of the country for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/49 "2016-12-12T16:13:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Poor conservative. Economic growth is the only force that can ameliorate poverty over the long term. Redistribution slows economic growth. This sacrifices the future of the country for a small improvement in living standards now. Many times this small improvement in living standards does not show up and we have sacrificed the future of the country for nothing. Economic growth \*that is shared beyond the 0.1% \*is the only force that can ameliorate poverty over the long term. Redistribution in a capital-dominant era is the only known way to achieve that. Redistribution can be in the form of higher wages; it need not be in the form of taxes collected from some and checks sent out to others. But in either case it’s economic orthodoxy on the Right that anything that detracts from the returns paid to concentrated capital is “socialism”. It’s economically ignorant for all and utterly self-serving for the 0.1%. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/50 "2016-12-12T17:29:24Z")
I like post #4. I lean socially slightly liberal and economically slightly conservative. Extremists on all sides get way too much attention. Many issues have become politicized that shouldn’t have to be – why can’t you be conservative in favour of conservation re:national parks or the climate or a living wage or broad health insurance? A liberal in favour of efficient government not larger than necessary or paying the armed forces and farmers properly (see living wage) or prioritizing the economy over identity? If you live in an echo chamber maybe you buy the whole basket? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/51 "2016-12-12T21:11:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Economic growth \*that is shared beyond the 0.1% \*is the only force that can ameliorate poverty over the long term. Redistribution in a capital-dominant era is the only known way to achieve that. Redistribution can be in the form of higher wages; it need not be in the form of taxes collected from some and checks sent out to others. > > But in either case it’s economic orthodoxy on the Right that anything that detracts from the returns paid to concentrated capital is “socialism”. It’s economically ignorant for all and utterly self-serving for the 0.1%. Redistribution in the form of higher wages is not redistribution. Wages are paid voluntarily and taxes are not. Most of the elevated returns to capital recently are because of real estate prices which are driven in part by government regulation that make it illegal to build new homes in places with high demand. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/52 "2016-12-12T22:40:31Z")
Until you can bargain as an equal with your employer your wages are whatever they deign to offer, not necessarily your actual value-add to the business. ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/53 "2016-12-12T22:50:19Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Neither. I despise both rich liberals and poor conservatives. You should like me then, I’ve been both. 😃 I generally consider myself economically moderate and socially liberal. I do think that Reagan was right back in 1980 that government was too heavy and in danger of collapsing under its own inertia. However, the Bush years on have been an overcorrection. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/54 "2016-12-13T00:42:01Z")
OK. I really don’t like that to discuss this indicates my income, because as a New Englander that’s just something you don’t discuss. But I do feel strongly about this. I’m a rich liberal, and the reasons are largely echoed upthread, but since I showed you mine, I suppose I have earned the right to soapbox: -The concept that we are a free society means that one should be able to live one’s life without interference due to others’ beliefs. Specifically I am talking about things like gay marriage and transgender treatment. Without compelling proof that (ie) gay marriage hurts someone else, there is no defense for opposing it. -We are under taxed. Nobody likes to pay taxes, and I pay more than most as a high income wage earner. But I also recognize how much those taxes pay for, and I recognize that regardless of whether the current government is liberal or conservative, we spend more than we take in. We just disagree on how. Therefore we must raise taxes in order to cover what we are already doing. -I know that my income is largely the result of the birth lottery. I was born into an excellent school system, even though my parents were blue collar. I happen to be smarter than most. I chose a STEM degree before that was the in-thing, and married a woman who did the same (and I assure you I didn’t enter STEM because I thought it would pay well; if philosophy had got me excited I would have done that). Given all that, and being in the richest nation in the history of the planet, I believe we have a responsibility to our fellow man. Many of whom were not born as lucky as me and do jobs society needs done and frankly I don’t want to do. -I believe it is criminal that any participating member of society would go blind because he can’t get treatment for something like diabetes… just an example, but imagine someone is a type 1 diabetic and can’t get insulin and diabetes education. Remember that in addition to being poor, there are a lot of uneducated and (we must admit) unintelligent people out there. I could go on, but those are some of the key reasons. I know I have a tremendous amount. I save more per year than the average household income. And I recognize how lucky that makes me. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/55 "2016-12-13T11:51:02Z")
This question is totally baffling to me. I’ve been pretty much all over the spectrum in terms of income, and my politics haven’t changed at all, or at least not in any way that’s connected to income shifts. Why on earth would they? My politics are based on what I think is best for my country and for the world. That doesn’t change with how much money I make. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/56 "2016-12-13T16:13:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Until you can bargain as an equal with your employer your wages are whatever they deign to offer, not necessarily your actual value-add to the business. My wages are what I deign to take. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/57 "2016-12-13T17:32:51Z")
Well, based on the polling so far, over 25% of respondents make over $250k/year. What a remarkably well-off community we have here. And mostly liberal, although that’s no surprise. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/58 "2016-12-13T18:14:27Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Well, based on the polling so far, over 25% of respondents make over $250k/year. What a remarkably well-off community we have here. And mostly liberal, although that’s no surprise. That’ll probably even out. The original version of this thread only asked for rich liberals or poor conservatives, so they were here first. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/59 "2016-12-13T18:24:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Well, based on the polling so far, over 25% of respondents make over $250k/year. What a remarkably well-off community we have here. And mostly liberal, although that’s no surprise. Perhaps there were a lot of people like me who did not answer because like me they are single and make several times the minimum wage and so don’t consider themselves poor, but do not make $250K either. Although I do agree that if wealthiness categories were made by income that $250K would be where I would place “rich”, there is also “upper middle class” and “middle class” below that before you reach “poor”. I still make at least twice as much as where I’d place “poor” for single people in my area, and still I don’t think people at that level would be living paycheck to paycheck if they had some financial skills and were healthy. Perhaps a lot of these people did not answer for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289/60 "2016-12-13T20:08:24Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Well, based on the polling so far, over 25% of respondents make over $250k/year. What a remarkably well-off community we have here. And mostly liberal, although that’s no surprise. No voluntary poll ever achieves anything close to neutral representation. Average people are not going to be interested in this thread. Truly poor people aren’t going to be on this board. So that means there is going to be disproportionate response from rich liberals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-rich-liberal-or-a-poor-conservative-if-so-explain-why/774289.md?page=4)