# "Are you a terrorist?" on USA visa application. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078 "2014-03-19T12:12:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/21 "2014-03-19T15:27:13Z")
Yeah, I believe it is so they can easily kick you out of the country if they find out you belong to a group that is considered to be terrorists by the US government. You lied on the form, so out you go. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/22 "2014-03-19T17:03:09Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Think Guantanamo… > > The problem is, some acts were committed in foreign counries against foreigners, and the actions were planned overseas. What US laws have they broken, as long as it did not involve piracy on the high seas or action against a USA-flagged vessel? > > At the very least, it gives you grounds to deny entry if they say “yes” or lie. I think Gyrate has it right - they simply put you right back on a plane to somewhere rather than going through pesky hearings and appeals. Having a criminal record makes it difficult to get a us visa anyway - they’d be barred on those grounds. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/23 "2014-03-19T17:23:28Z")
Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? An even stupider question on immigration forms. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/24 "2014-03-19T18:35:19Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Dont overlook the obivous advantage that it also is useful in weeding out the really stupid terrorists. Especially those who watch the imported American TV program, _Cops_, at home before flying to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/25 "2014-03-19T18:45:11Z")
It’s probably a jurisdictional issue. Let’s say you were a terrorist back in your home country - you committed murders, you blew up buildings, you hijacked airplanes, etc. But you committed all those crimes in your home country. Lying on your VISA application is a crime you committed specifically against the United States. So it’s a lot easier for the American government to prosecute you on that crime. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/26 "2014-03-19T19:04:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s probably a jurisdictional issue. Let’s say you were a terrorist back in your home country - you committed murders, you blew up buildings, you hijacked airplanes, etc. But you committed all those crimes in your home country. > > Lying on your VISA application is a crime you committed specifically against the United States. So it’s a lot easier for the American government to prosecute you on that crime. But what about people who have changed? E.g. I know some people who used to smoke cigarettes but don’t anymore. If you smoked from 1995-2012 but you quit in August 2012, are you still legally considered a smoker in 2014? How many years have to go by before you can honestly say you aren’t a smoker? How much time has to pass after a person has formally renounced the LDS faith before they can honestly answer “Are you Mormon?” with a NO? Six months? A year? Ten years? a lifetime? Now, suppose a (now former) IRA member blew up his last Belfast car bomb in 1995, left the IRA in 1996, joined the Quakers in 2005, and now travels around Europe teaching against violence and encouraging people to get along. Now he wants to go to the US. Is he still a “terrorist” or is he a law-abiding citizen ex-terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/27 "2014-03-19T23:28:20Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > It’s like the seemingly absurd question on tax returns about profits or losses from illegal gambling. The IRS is one group that \*\*really \*\*gets annoyed when you lie to them. Tax perjury is a felony with penalties up to $100,000 fine and three years in prison, and the IRS will happily wait to toss your butt into prison for lying about illegal gambling once the FBI is done with you. Supposedly, if you admit to illegal earnings on your tax return, the IRS isn’t supposed to share that information with other law enforcement agencies. If you are _required_ to confess to illegal activities for tax purposes, and if the IRS then turns that information over, then your 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination has been violated. If I’m not mistaken, this is established law in the United States. (One wonders, though, what _really_ happens.) Remember that they couldn’t nab Al Capone for all his bootlegging or whatever other crimes he committed, but they got him on tax evasion. Remember that they couldn’t nail [Alger Hiss](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alger_Hiss) on espionage charges, but they got him on perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/28 "2014-03-19T23:42:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > My understanding of these questions (there are other ones about drugs and similar) is that it facilitates deportation - if you lied on your entry form it’s easier to kick you out of the country than if you commit a “regular” crime and have to go through a lengthy legal procedure. That’s the general idea, but it still involves lengthy legal procedures. It’s the same principle behind the continuing attempts to deport Nazis, people who committed atrocities in the former Yugoslavia or Central America, etc. They are deported for having lied about their background, military service, organization memberships, etc., because if the truth had been known, they wouldn’t have been given the visa, refugee status, green card, citizenship, etc. in the first place. But it still involves deportation hearings, or in the case of people who have since become U.S. citizens, denaturalization hearings in District Court first and then deportation hearings. There’s a [whole unit in the Justice Department](http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007105)devoted to ferreting out people like this. When I worked in Immigration Court, I occasionally had the opportunity to examine case files, and man, those guys were thorough. (Of course the files I saw were for people who had already been denaturalized, so the factual issues had already been proven in court.) The court files generally took up several boxes of documentation. Eva Luna, former interpreter/court clerk, Office of the Immigration Judge ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/29 "2014-03-20T00:04:53Z")
Thanks everyone. Btw, I had to laugh because one of my Italian students who was involve in the discussion that brought this up told me that when she was younger and flying to the USA from Italian, the flight attendant announced, only in Italian: “Please don’t tick the ‘yes’ box to the terrorist question. No one will laugh and they _will_ deport you. Thank you.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/30 "2014-03-20T00:13:34Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > But what about people who have changed? > > E.g. I know some people who used to smoke cigarettes but don’t anymore. If you smoked from 1995-2012 but you quit in August 2012, are you still legally considered a smoker in 2014? How many years have to go by before you can honestly say you aren’t a smoker? How much time has to pass after a person has formally renounced the LDS faith before they can honestly answer “Are you Mormon?” with a NO? Six months? A year? Ten years? a lifetime? > > Now, suppose a (now former) IRA member blew up his last Belfast car bomb in 1995, left the IRA in 1996, joined the Quakers in 2005, and now travels around Europe teaching against violence and encouraging people to get along. Now he wants to go to the US. Is he still a “terrorist” or is he a law-abiding citizen ex-terrorist? I don’t think there’s a necessary equivalence there. Whether somebody is defined as a smoker or a Mormon is generally based on what they are now. But being a terrorist or a criminal is generally based on your history. That’s why we prosecute people for crimes they have already committed. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/31 "2014-03-20T00:21:43Z")
I notice that the question says, “Are you a terrorist?”, not “Were you a terrorist?” or “Are you now or have you ever been a terrorist?” (which taken strictly would include childhood bullies)…so ate they looking to exclude anyone who has ever used terror as a political tactic? > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Dont overlook the obivous advantage that it also is useful in weeding out the really stupid terrorists. Because they only want the smart terrorists to visit? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/32 "2014-03-20T00:24:53Z")
I should explain about deportation procedures. They don’t apply to people who arrive in the U.S. on the Visa Waiver program as opposed to arriving on an actual visa. When you use the Visa Waiver, you are explicitly waiving your right to a hearing before a judge (except in certain extremely limited circumstances, such as claiming fear of persecution or torture if returned to your home country). ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/33 "2014-03-20T00:33:56Z")
In the 70s I heard a UL like this. It said that anyone becoming a government employee had to sign a form that asked in part “have you or any of your relatives every advocated the overthrow of the US government?”. One brave person said “yes”, and when asked to explain said his grandfather fought on the side of the Confederacy and he was proud of the fact. The UL then goes on to say that they were then going to fire or fine every employee who had said “no” and had a relative that fought for the Rebs … until good sense intervened. No idea how much truth there is in that, if any. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/34 "2014-03-20T01:07:56Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Now, suppose a (now former) IRA member blew up his last Belfast car bomb in 1995, left the IRA in 1996, joined the Quakers in 2005, and now travels around Europe teaching against violence and encouraging people to get along. Now he wants to go to the US. Is he still a “terrorist” or is he a law-abiding citizen ex-terrorist? The actual question asks if you’ve _ever_ been involved in espionage or sabotage, terrorist activities, genocide, or persecutions associated with Nazi Germany and its allies. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/35 "2014-03-20T01:17:00Z")
This is new to me. I went to the US at the time of Bill Clinton and I was asked more “common” questions by the immigration officer: 1. Why did I speak English like an American when it was my first visit. 2. Why was I carrying $5,000 in cash (an information that I volunteered.) 3. How come I know the names of Bill Clinton’s entire cabinet (she quizzed me, for Pete’s sake.) 4. How come I seem to know my brother’s house and neighborhood in Chicago by heart? * * * So how can I possibly be thought of as a terrorist? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/36 "2014-03-20T01:29:38Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, I believe it is so they can easily kick you out of the country if they find out you belong to a group that is considered to be terrorists by the US government. You lied on the form, so out you go. You mean a lie is defined as “having a different opinion from the US government”? How can a person possibly know if he is on some goofy US government watch list, or has a name similar to one? ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/37 "2014-03-20T06:15:39Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > You mean a lie is defined as “having a different opinion from the US government”? How can a person possibly know if he is on some goofy US government watch list, or has a name similar to one? See lord feldon’s reply above. I don’t think you understand the actual wording that is used. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/38 "2014-03-20T06:41:11Z")
Any chance that they could seize assets easier if you lied on your visa application? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/39 "2014-03-20T07:29:41Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > In the 70s I heard a UL like this. It said that anyone becoming a government employee had to sign a form that asked in part “have you or any of your relatives every advocated the overthrow of the US government?”. > > One brave person said “yes”, and when asked to explain said his grandfather fought on the side of the Confederacy and he was proud of the fact. The UL then goes on to say that they were then going to fire or fine every employee who had said “no” and had a relative that fought for the Rebs … until good sense intervened. > > No idea how much truth there is in that, if any. In fairness, the Confederates only wanted a reduction in the United States government not its overthrow. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078/40 "2014-03-20T08:24:42Z")
It’s probably not that important for people traveling under the visa waiver program, but it can be important for other people entering the country. For a specific example of what can happen when someone lies when asked this question, look to John Demjanjuk. He was stripped of his citizenship and deported (twice, actually) because a judge ruled that he had lied about his involvement with Germany. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-terrorist-on-usa-visa-application-why/684078.md?page=3)