# Are you a Tolkien person or a Lewis person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2006, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550 "2006-01-05T08:36:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/81 "2006-01-13T17:37:30Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I thought he was making a sly reference to Fangorn’s discussion about Ents growing more treeish and Trees growing Entish. > > Jim I get that, but it’s a dig at Tolkien fans - the “obsessive” and “acolytes”, I think, indicate where Roger sits on the T vs. L fence. It seems to me that he started this thread to get all Tolkien fans out of the woodwork so he could call them names. Fine in the Pit, hell, fine in CS even. Here, though, his tone just comes across as condescending. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/82 "2006-01-13T17:43:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I get that, but it’s a dig at Tolkien fans - the “ **obsessive** ” and “acolytes”, I think, indicate where Roger sits on the T vs. L fence. It seems to me that he started this thread to get all Tolkien fans out of the woodwork so he could call them names. Fine in the Pit, hell, fine in CS even. Here, though, his tone just comes across as condescending. Make that “compulsiveness” - sheesh, I’m one for having to correct my own posts today… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/83 "2006-01-13T20:09:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I get that, but it’s a dig at Tolkien fans - the “obsessive” and "acolytes I took them as observations, not digs or criticisms or value judgments necessarily. It’s true that Tolkien dovoted a lot of time and effort—writing and rewriting; meticulously, even obsessively, working out details—compared to Lewis who would write fairly quickly and then move on to something else. And it’s true that some Tolkien fans seem to devote to LoTR a level of “obsessiveness” (for lack of a better word) that parallel’s Tolkien’s himself. FWIW, if we’re just comparing Middle Earth and Narnia, Lewis himself might have been a “Tolkien person,” in the sense of thinking LoTR the greater of the two works. (Certainly, Lewis had greater appreciation for LoTR than Tolkien had for Narnia.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/84 "2006-01-13T20:20:34Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > I took them as observations, not digs or criticisms or value judgments necessarily. It’s true that Tolkien dovoted a lot of time and effort—writing and rewriting; meticulously, even obsessively, working out details—compared to Lewis who would write fairly quickly and then move on to something else. And it’s true that some Tolkien fans seem to devote to LoTR a level of “obsessiveness” (for lack of a better word) that parallel’s Tolkien’s himself. Hey I resemble that remark. 😉 > [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > FWIW, if we’re just comparing Middle Earth and Narnia, Lewis himself might have been a “Tolkien person,” in the sense of thinking LoTR the greater of the two works. (Certainly, Lewis had greater appreciation for LoTR than Tolkien had for Narnia.) I think I do recall Lewis stating somewhere the Middle Earth was the greater work. I would never be able to find it though, so we’ll leave it a valueless hearsay. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/85 "2006-01-13T20:22:08Z")
Those of you who are trashing C. S. Lewis for having less sophistication/depth than Tolkien really should read _Till We Have Faces_, Lewis’s finest fiction, in my opinion. I also find _The Screwtape Letters_ and _The Great Divorce_ to be thoroughly enjoyable and re-readable fiction. I even have a fondness for _The Pilgrim’s Regress_, but don’t care that much for the Narnia books. For pseudo-scientific romances, the Space Trilogy is darned compelling. Having said all that, my love for Tolkien’s work is greater. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/86 "2006-01-14T01:18:06Z")
Lewis for prose. I can’t stand Tolkien’s prose for some reason. . .makes me think of _Monty Python & the Holy Grail_. **“Get on with it!”**. And, I mean, I like Dostoevsky and Joyce, so I don’t have a problem with long, rambling prose. Something about Tolkien;s language, though. . . Based on what I’ve read, I actually like JRRT’s Middle Earth a bit better than Lewis’s Narnia. And the language creation he does is just. . .über-nifty. But the accursed prose! That just blows everything away. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/87 "2006-01-14T05:01:29Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > (Gosh, a completely gratuitous reference to me! Someone should have invoked **Reepicheep** and **Not A Tame Lion** too.) Thank you. This is the first time someone has referenced me (or at least the first time I know about it). _Til We Have Faces_ is my favorite of Lewis’ fiction (I hope **Orual** shows up to comment on this thread). While I have read Tolkien both as a teen and several times as an adult, his stories are all in one place. Middle-earth is a wonderfully realized place and lovingly presented in rich detail to the reader. However, I love the different places Lewis takes me: A Grief Observed, The Screwtape Letters, TWHF, The Abolition of Man, The Four Loves, Narnia, The Great Divorce, the Space trilogy. Each of these books tells a very different kind of story, and in many cases addresses a different audience. No one would mistake That Hideous Strength for Surprised by Joy. While I enjoy Tolkien’s Middle-Earth, its depth, its detailed mythos, and the multilayer character that inhabit it I much prefer the berth of difference in Lewis. (Knowing my username did anyone expect anything else?) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/88 "2006-01-14T05:15:49Z")
Gene Wolfe ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/89 "2006-01-14T05:18:52Z")
> [@Reepicheep](#): > > …snip… > While I enjoy Tolkien’s Middle-Earth, its depth, its detailed mythos, and the multilayer character that inhabit it I much prefer the berth of difference in Lewis. (Knowing my username did anyone expect anything else?) I think we expected your vote for Lewis, but the eloquence of your post is exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/90 "2006-01-14T06:25:52Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I think we expected your vote for Lewis, but the eloquence of your post is exceptional. :o Blush, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/91 "2006-01-14T23:30:43Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I think we expected your vote for Lewis, but the eloquence of your post is exceptional. There speaks a man who doesn’t want to be set upon by a three-foot mouse with a disturbing facility with a needle-sharp rapier. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/92 "2006-01-15T03:06:42Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > There speaks a man who doesn’t want to be set upon by a three-foot mouse with a disturbing facility with a needle-sharp rapier. 😃 Oops, you’re on to me. 😃 Jim ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/93 "2006-01-15T18:41:06Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Eh, I think you’re expecting too much. > > I’d wager 90% of Dopers would say “both” or “neither”. HIJACK What an obnoxious, self-righteous attempt to piss on a new thread… /HIJACK ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/94 "2006-01-15T19:19:21Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > HIJACK > > What an obnoxious, self-righteous attempt to piss on a new thread… > > /HIJACK What the hell is this all about, **newcrasher**? 'Twas a perfectly valid response. Your response was not perfectly valid. Watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/95 "2006-01-15T21:12:02Z")
roger thornhill writes: \> Lissla Lissar, George MacDonald, Lewis, Tolkien, Chesterton…I’m tempted to \> take a wheelbarrow load of cash down to the bookies and say you are one of \> the 300 people in the world still alive who has finished one of Charles Williams’s \> books! I’ve personally met more than 300 people who’ve read one of Charles Williams’s books, I think. O.K., I admit that I’ve spent a great deal of my free time as an adult reading about, talking about, and otherwise concerned with the Inklings. I’ve been a member of the Mythopoeic Society since 1972: [http://www.mythsoc.org](http://www.mythsoc.org) There are a lot of Charles Williams fans out there. Not remotely as many as Tolkien or Lewis fans. Less than the amount of MacDonald or Chesterton fans. But still a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/96 "2006-01-15T21:32:54Z")
Hmm. I think Professor Tolkien’s work, as a whole, was superior. However, my SINGLE FAVORITE book either man wrote is Professor Lewis’ [Till We Have Faces](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0156904365/qid=1137360726/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-0580405-4476861?s=books&v=glance&n=283155). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/97 "2006-01-16T00:18:34Z")
Tolkien, in a heartbeat. I’ve read a pretty good shelf of Lewis - Narnia, the space trilogy, The Great Divorce, The Screwtape Letters, Mere Christianity, Till We Have Faces, and a few others. Of Tolkien’s, besides The Hobbit and LOTR, I’ve read Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham, On Fairy-Stories, Leaf By Niggle, and The Silmarillion. I’m not sure Lewis has written anything with the beauty of Smith of Wootton Major, let alone LOTR. And he’s certainly written nothing nearly as funny as Farmer Giles of Ham. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/98 "2006-01-16T01:40:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Look, if you want to Pit Tolkien fans, just go ahead and do it. I’ll be in their with boots on. > > Otherwise stick to the topic, which is whether you prefer Tolkien or Lewis, not what you think of their “acolytes”. That smarminess is out of place here. No use pitting Tolkien fans. It wouldn’t get a single response. Oh, yes, plenty of people would _draft_ something, but then it would fall prey to endless re-writes, interrupted by long sessions of solitaire! Nothing would get finished. But, to balance the books, how about the average CSL fan/acolyte: Someone who writes quickly and without editing, who misquotes others and places understanding before knowledge. No wonder Tolkien fans outnumber Lewis fans at SDMB by more than 2 to 1. Incidentally, for those who want to try Lewis’s essays (possibly best suited of all genres to his style - concise and punchy), _Christian Reflections_ and _Selected Literary Essays_ offer good fare from different ends of his spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/99 "2006-01-16T11:04:42Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > roger thornhill writes: > > \> Lissla Lissar, George MacDonald, Lewis, Tolkien, Chesterton…I’m tempted to > \> take a wheelbarrow load of cash down to the bookies and say you are one of > \> the 300 people in the world still alive who has finished one of Charles Williams’s > \> books! > > I’ve personally met more than 300 people who’ve read one of Charles Williams’s books, I think. O.K., I admit that I’ve spent a great deal of my free time as an adult reading about, talking about, and otherwise concerned with the Inklings. I’ve been a member of the Mythopoeic Society since 1972: > > [http://www.mythsoc.org](http://www.mythsoc.org) > > There are a lot of Charles Williams fans out there. Not remotely as many as Tolkien or Lewis fans. Less than the amount of MacDonald or Chesterton fans. But still a lot of them. I myself have read THE GREATER TRUMPS. DESCENT INTO HELL, MANY DIMENSIONS, and many years ago THE DESCENT OF THE DOVE- have but not yet read WAR IN HEAVEN and THE PLACE OF THE LION. Want to get hold of ALL HALLOWS EVE, HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN and WITCHCRAFT. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2006, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550/100 "2006-01-16T11:58:15Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > No use pitting Tolkien fans. It wouldn’t get a single response. Oh, yes, plenty of people would _draft_ something, but then it would fall prey to endless re-writes, interrupted by long sessions of solitaire! Nothing would get finished. > > But, to balance the books, how about the average CSL fan/acolyte: Someone who writes quickly and without editing, who misquotes others and places understanding before knowledge. No wonder Tolkien fans outnumber Lewis fans at SDMB by more than 2 to 1. That’s better - an equal-opportunity takedown. I’m sorry I assumed you were just anti-Tolkien. And since there’s no tie, I’ll never know where you stand! The not knowing is killing me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-a-tolkien-person-or-a-lewis-person/338550.md?page=6)