# Are You An Atheist or Do You Just Hate Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789 "2003-02-13T09:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/81 "2003-02-14T11:33:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obvious Guy \* > \*\*Do atheist keep there beliefs to themselves? I think not. It’s taught in schools and evolution is taught on TV (especially TLC and the Discovery channel.) Fair is fair. \*\* LOL, athiesm taught in schools, good one. Sounds like the makings of a Jack Chick tract, like the anti-evolution one, the lone voice of fundie Xianity standing against the high school teacher and proving that god exists, I can see it now. I think there’s an urban legend like this, read it on Snopes somewhere. Maybe that’s where this comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/82 "2003-02-14T12:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nogginhead \* > \*\*Yes, he did, and if what you are about is finding flaws in your opponents’ statements, you found one. Congratulations. You want a medal? > > On the other hand, if you’re interested in the gist of your opponents argument, you haven’t yet asserted the contrary to the notion that religion has caused a great deal of suffering. Who cares whether it’s more or less than some other particular source? > > And, while Stalin and Mao caused a lot of death, there are other kinds of suffering in the world, so I’m not sure the appeal to a higher authority is germaine. Since Ego qualified the post you attacked with ‘imo’, I’d say you haven’t yet won the argument. \*\* I can’t look at his ass and read his mind. I think the “gist” of his argument was that religion is the worst thing that ever happened and here’s evidence. Well, his evidence was wrong, and so was his argument. He was making the exact point that you’re dismissing with “who cares?” — that the suffering caused by religion is more than any other source. Sure, politicians infest religion as much as business or government. Those are people who want to control, coerce, and manipulate other people for their own gain. But people of faith have also been some of history’s greatest thinkers, philosophers, philanthropists, and contributers. Art, music, drama, literature — religion has been a significant part of every culture for thousands of years. Dismissing it as the biggest problem the world has ever known is Neanderthal in its conception. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/83 "2003-02-14T14:02:50Z")
I think the whole issue of whether religion is more harmful than good is a red herring. Yes, there may have beeen a couple of people whose lives were negatively impacted by the Malleus Malificarum. Yes, Stalin didn’t go to church every Sunday. Yes, after one group of religious nuts burned down the Library of Alexandria, another group of religious scholars worked to save ancient texts. Yes, a naturalist, materialist worldview developed both antibiotics and nerve gas. How do we score these? How do we rank them? Was the inquisition better or worse than Stalin’s purges? Are antibiotics better or worse than saving Aristotle’s texts? September 11: how does it stack up against the Khmer Rouge? Certainly we shouldn’t deny the horrors that have been perpetrated by religious fruitcakes. At the same time, intellectual honesty demands that we recognize the good works done by religious folk. I think the only generalization we can make is that religion is a source of passion for a great many people. Whether they channel that passion into constructive or destructive ends, varies greatly. And **Obvious Guy** , you’re misinformed if you think that the teaching of evolution constitutes atheistic beliefs in the school system. Do a little research, and you’ll find that the teaching of evolution actually constitutes [Sinister Papist Propaganda](http://www.cin.org/jp2evolu.html)! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Spakler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Carl\_Spakler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Spakler)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/84 "2003-02-14T15:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obvious Guy \* > **Do atheist keep there beliefs to themselves? I think not. It’s taught in schools** I’d like to add my voice to those asking just which school is teaching atheism. If they do a good job of it, I might even send my own child there. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/85 "2003-02-14T15:14:20Z")
I’m an athiest. I think I’ve finally found something that Religion did that was good (the rest I’m indifferent to - the artists would have still been brilliant without their religion, plenty of people would still be carrying out charitable acts, and conversely, people would find other excuses to kill each other). But without Religion, we’d be missing out on a lot of cool architecture. Religion’s been responsible for some great buildings - those big cathedrals, towering mosques, the pyramids - I can’t imagine what would make people build such ridiculously intricate and grand structures if not for religion. Until recently that is - nowadays we build skyscrapers and towers and testaments to democracy and stuff. So, I think we can get rid of religion without too much of a loss.\* \*Not that I’m going to start any effort to do this. I wouldn’t be complaining if everyone woke up tomorrow and said ‘HA! God… sheesh, what were we _thinking_?’ But that doesn’t mean I’m going to make people stop believing in what they want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/86 "2003-02-14T15:32:31Z")
To paraphrase Joseph Campbell, you can tell a lot about a society by whether its most elaborate buildings honor God, Government, or Greed. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/87 "2003-02-14T15:47:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*I think the whole issue of whether religion is more harmful than good is a red herring. Yes, there may have beeen a couple of people whose lives were negatively impacted by the Malleus Malificarum. Yes, Stalin didn’t go to church every Sunday. Yes, after one group of religious nuts burned down the Library of Alexandria, another group of religious scholars worked to save ancient texts. Yes, a naturalist, materialist worldview developed both antibiotics and nerve gas. > > How do we score these? How do we rank them? Was the inquisition better or worse than Stalin’s purges? Are antibiotics better or worse than saving Aristotle’s texts? September 11: how does it stack up against the Khmer Rouge? > > Certainly we shouldn’t deny the horrors that have been perpetrated by religious fruitcakes. At the same time, intellectual honesty demands that we recognize the good works done by religious folk. > > I think the only generalization we can make is that religion is a source of passion for a great many people. Whether they channel that passion into constructive or destructive ends, varies greatly. > > And **Obvious Guy** , you’re misinformed if you think that the teaching of evolution constitutes atheistic beliefs in the school system. Do a little research, and you’ll find that the teaching of evolution actually constitutes [Sinister Papist Propaganda](http://www.cin.org/jp2evolu.html)! > > Daniel \*\* Lots of pearls in that, Daniel. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/88 "2003-02-14T16:31:56Z")
Thanks, Libertarian! Man, if I told my sixteen-year-old self I’d write something like that, he wouldna believed it. I _do_ like calling evolution Sinister Papist Propaganda, however. I’m gonna have to keep doing that – just think how it’ll confuse the Creationists! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/89 "2003-02-14T17:16:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Obvious Guy** _ > > Do atheist keep there beliefs to themselves? I think not. It’s taught in schools and evolution is taught on TV (especially TLC and the Discovery channel.) Fair is fair. [Jack Chick] **HAW! HAW!** [/Jack Chick] Evolution != Atheism. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/90 "2003-02-14T23:04:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\*:smack: > Well, I’m an idiot. Then her comments make all sorts of sense. > :smack: > > Never mind… > > _::slinks off, totally embarrassed::_ \*\* Don’t feel too badly BiblioCat, I was trying to puzzle it out too! Then had the same reaction you did (oh! well no wonder!). ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/91 "2003-02-14T23:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nogginhead \* > \*\*Are you claiming it’s possible to live by what the bible says (I assume you believe is god’s word), **without** interpretation? > > I’m not well-versed (ouch!), but isn’t there loads of stuff in the bible that is frowned upon in these enlightened times? I mean like slavery, death penalty for working on the sabbath, etc. > > If the bible is god’s word, and you don’t follow it in every particular, I think you must be deciding that god didn’t mean what the bible says. Or you don’t believe it’s god’s word. \*\* Nooo no nooo, not at all!!! My point was that misinterpretation (is that the term?), or purposefully interpreting the Bible (or religious tome of one’s choice) to one’s own interests was the evil in those cases rather than God, the Bible, or “religion” itself. Am I making sense? And as for well-versed? I am reaaaaaaally, really not. Not anymore. I’m ashamed to say I don’t remember nearly enough of the Bible to “put up a good fight” theologically speaking. As to your last sentence? Oh Hell yes! (oops) Trouble is, no religion really does. At least not insofar as what the King James version says. I have no working knowledge of other religious tomes, so can’t comment appropriately on those. But as far as the Bible? Heck if we were to really follow it today, to the letter? Women wouldn’t be allowed in the church, only in the outer hallways. We wouldn’t do anything AT ALL, on a Sunday. I can think of lots of good examples. Good point you made there. ---
**Author:** ![Kaje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kaje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaje)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/92 "2003-02-14T23:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*A weird sort of faith it would be indeed if it did not take top priority in your life. \*\* I think I have a perfect example of where faith should NOT be placed ahead of all other things. A friend of mine’s parents just just him off completely when they found out he’d been sleeping with a chick… he’s been pretty much beaten down over the past few years and now this… he might make it out on top, but that’s a helluva risk to take as parents… putting your beliefs ahead of your son’s wellbeing and hoping for the best. There are definitely things that should come ahead of faith, and it’s precisely when this doesn’t occur that people become intolerant fundies… Faith would be a fine thing to rely upon when you’re in doubt about something from a rational point of view, and rather than flounder seek the support of some established decision making tool, but when it overrides logical and rational faculties, you’re asking for trouble. ---
**Author:** ![BadDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BadDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BadDog)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/93 "2003-02-15T01:35:37Z")
I did not get an e-mail notification or I would have checked back earlier. I just thought no one responded. I will read some answers and post again. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789/94 "2003-02-15T02:13:17Z")
Add me to the list (what _is_ it with me and pit threads today? I suh-wear it…) wondering how atheism —\> evolution, or evolution —\> atheism. 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-an-atheist-or-do-you-just-hate-christians/154789.md?page=4)