# Are you comfortable with gay people using the terms "my husband" or "my wife"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778 "2019-07-09T15:58:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/121 "2019-07-15T13:00:54Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Another flaming heterosexual here but -------- my wife and I lived together for 22 years and have been legally married for over 20 years. Our joke is that soon we need to get divorced and come up with a third option. Separate instead of divorcing, that will drive everybody nuts. Depending on your local laws, you don’t even need to move apart! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/122 "2019-07-15T15:32:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I voted “I’m okay with it” because there was no “How does it possibly make any difference to anybody how I possibly feel about it?” This. And I love the whole ‘fuckmate’ response =) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/123 "2019-07-15T15:45:43Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > My first instinct was to say “I don’t feel anything, it’s no different than a man mentioning his wife or a woman mentioning her husband.” Born-again Christian here, trying to overcome my (very un-Jesus-like) prejudices. I still have to take a beat and go “Oh, it’s HER wife. Okay, I get it. Not what I’m used to, but equally valid… Ohmigod, she’s not noticing this inner dialogue, is she? Have I moved in the last ten seconds? Say something normal, quick!” > [@](#): > > But actually that’s not quite true. I do feel something - I feel like doing a little happy dance, because I’m so glad that SSM is finally possible. AMEN! And I don’t know why the entire country isn’t waking up and saying “Wait, we have a major political party that is against same-sex marriage? In fact, AGAINST “those people” being in love? _WHAT?_ We need to vote all of them out right now!” ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/124 "2019-07-15T18:17:13Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Little aside: I wonder how this would be dealt with in languages, like Russian, where you have two different verbs for “to marry”. > > One applies to women (by default implying that she is going to marry a man) and the other to men (again, by default implying that he is going to marry a woman). > > \ Maybe that’s why things are problematic in Russia with respect to homosexuality in society… they find out that they have to completely revamp the very grammar and vocabulary of the language and that is simply too much! \ > > (As an aside, in Russian it is basically impossible to have gender-neutral language. The moment you have a verb in the past, it has to agree in gender with the subject, and it makes it all-but-impossible to hide the gender of the person you are talking about). There’s a Yakov Smirnoff “In Soviet Russia…” joke in here somewhere, I’m sure of it. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/125 "2019-07-15T18:40:26Z")
In Soviet Russia, gender has you… ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/126 "2019-07-15T21:09:26Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > I have a problem with the usage of the word “husband” to mean simply “a male person who is married”. I don’t believe that definition is correct, even if it was legally the same as what I think it means up until 20 years ago. There was apparently a collective decision that the above definition was correct in English now that same-sex marriages are legal, but I see no reason why it necessarily should have been. I think the fact that it freaks out those opposed to the idea is the reason it caught on, just as the reason that gay rights moved towards full marriage when civil partnerships ran into opposition. I personally would rather go with what doesn’t cause people to get upset when there’s a perfectly viable alternative that’s absolutely the same. If gay rights people want to rub it into the rah-rahs’ noses that the majority of the populace is opposed to their way of thinking, I mean, sure, if you want to be an asshole about it, that’s fine with me, because those people kinda deserve to have people be assholes to them. But I’d rather not take the assholish approach when I more conciliatory choice of words exists. And thus I will always use the word “spouse”, which existed before all of this. > > No, I’m not saying that you all are assholes for preferring to use the terms when the perfectly reasonable “spouse” exists, because you may have been entirely unaware that there were people that were all for gay rights and same-sex marriage that feel that the words “husband” and “wife” should only refer to members of a heterosexual marriage. And I don’t have anything against other people using them so long as they aren’t trying to rub it into anti-gay-rights people’s noses that they lost, but the latter is an example of a violation of the general rule of “don’t be an asshole”. Because I don’t want to possibly be perceived as doing that, I always will use “spouse”. People think of me as an asshole too easily without me trying to be, so I take steps to make sure that people don’t. This is totally incomprehensible to me. Based on the definition of the term, my husband is my husband, period. We have never, ever, referred to each other as our “spouse,” and why should we? Does that make us assholes? I’m totally baffled by this post. Does a Black person have to refer to himself as “colored,” to avoid offending racists? Does use of the word “Black” mean the person is an asshole? This is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/127 "2019-07-15T21:52:41Z")
Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/128 "2019-07-15T23:03:33Z")
It gets easier after the first time. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/129 "2019-07-15T23:40:27Z")
Half my friends are gay, and I know lots of men’s husband’s and women’s wives. But I guess I’m old and inflexible, and I’m still slightly surprised every time I first hear a man I didn’t know was married refer to his husband. It doesn’t bother me. I think it’s the correct term, and I’m delighted it’s legal. But I’m still just a little surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/130 "2019-07-16T00:06:32Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > I have a problem with the usage of the word “husband” to mean simply “a male person who is married”. I don’t believe that definition is correct, even if it was legally the same as what I think it means up until 20 years ago. There was apparently a collective decision that the above definition was correct in English now that same-sex marriages are legal, but I see no reason why it necessarily should have been. I think the fact that it freaks out those opposed to the idea is the reason it caught on, just as the reason that gay rights moved towards full marriage when civil partnerships ran into opposition. I personally would rather go with what doesn’t cause people to get upset when there’s a perfectly viable alternative that’s absolutely the same. If gay rights people want to rub it into the rah-rahs’ noses that the majority of the populace is opposed to their way of thinking, I mean, sure, if you want to be an asshole about it, that’s fine with me, because those people kinda deserve to have people be assholes to them. But I’d rather not take the assholish approach when I more conciliatory choice of words exists. And thus I will always use the word “spouse”, which existed before all of this. > > No, I’m not saying that you all are assholes for preferring to use the terms when the perfectly reasonable “spouse” exists, because you may have been entirely unaware that there were people that were all for gay rights and same-sex marriage that feel that the words “husband” and “wife” should only refer to members of a heterosexual marriage. And I don’t have anything against other people using them so long as they aren’t trying to rub it into anti-gay-rights people’s noses that they lost, but the latter is an example of a violation of the general rule of “don’t be an asshole”. Because I don’t want to possibly be perceived as doing that, I always will use “spouse”. People think of me as an asshole too easily without me trying to be, so I take steps to make sure that people don’t. Wow, there’s a lot to unpack, here. 1. What definition of husband do you think is correct, and what is your source for this definition? 2. You say that you think “husband” and “wife” being used for both members of a SSM has “caught on” because it tweaked social conservatives, and then compare that to the overall struggle for gay marriage. Do you think the push for SSM rights, itself, was done just to tweak conservatives? 3. Are you aware that the majority of voters in the US support SSM? It hasn’t been the minority political position in this country for going on a decade, now. 4. Do you really think it’s the words used to describe SSM that makes people oppose it? Do you think that opposition to SSM would have disappeared if we’d called it something else? 5. Are you aware that we did, in fact, attempt to get marriage rights under a different name, and that was still opposed by conservatives? To the extent that many red-leaning states explicitly outlawed civil unions? 6. Do you think there was a principled, non-bigoted opposition to gay marriage? Who do you think was representative of this principled, non-bigoted opposition, and how was it distinguishable from bigoted opposition? 7. Do you see any contradiction at all between, “Thinks gays should be totally equal,” and “Gays shouldn’t get to use the same words as straight people?” 8. If you introduce me and my (hypothetical) husband as, “ **Miller** and his spouse,” and I say, “He’s not my spouse, he’s my husband,” how do you react to that? How would you introduce us going forward? 9. Do you really think that lecturing gay people about manners when they’re fighting for their civil rights is a good way to get people to not think of you as an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/131 "2019-07-16T00:22:06Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? The question was not what folks choose to call themselves, the question was whether other straight people were uncomfortable with the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/132 "2019-07-16T00:24:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s like something from a sitcom 40 years ago—“So, youse are lesbians. So lemme ask you, how do you decide who’s the man?” > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/133 "2019-07-16T01:57:53Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? What is “the role of the female in he relationship”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/134 "2019-07-16T02:34:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > What is “the role of the female in he relationship”? He never answers the good questions. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/135 "2019-07-16T02:37:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > …8) If you introduce me and my (hypothetical) husband as, “ **Miller** and his spouse,” and I say, “He’s not my spouse, he’s my husband,” how do you react to that? How would you introduce us going forward? > … Hey, I’m not the only one who is slightly awkward about same-sex “husbands”. I was sitting next to a guy at a class recently, and he talked in non-gendered terms about the person he was married to. I wanted to ask him something where the natural word to use would be “husband” or “wife”, and I took a guess and asked about his “husband”. (The odds were in my favor. I was at a class at a gay event and I suspect that if he’d been talking about a wife he would have mentioned her gender.) He replied something along the lines of “oh good, I remembered to call him my husband, and not just my spouse”. And I had to say, “no, I guessed”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/136 "2019-07-16T02:39:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s like something from a sitcom 40 years ago—“So, youse are lesbians. So lemme ask you, how do you decide who’s the man?” > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? I described this thread at dinner, and our house guest mentioned a cartoon she saw. There’s a fork and knife sitting next to two chopsticks. And the knife asks the chopsticks, “so, which of you is the fork?” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/137 "2019-07-16T03:34:23Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hey, I’m not the only one who is slightly awkward about same-sex “husbands”. I know, I’ve read the thread. There’s a reason why I didn’t ask that question of any of the people who said, “It weirds me out, but I can deal with it,” and did ask it of the person who said, “It’s the wrong term, and I don’t use it.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/138 "2019-07-16T03:38:32Z")
It doesn’t weird me out. I thought it was strange at first though. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/139 "2019-07-16T14:27:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? Oh yeah, you’re probably referring to the guy who likes to get fucked and sucks cock, does the dishes, gets his hair done plus a pedicure, gets all dolled up and has his hubby’s dinner ready when he gets home, and prances around all day with limp wrists. And his husband’s the one who fucks and gets his dick sucked, watches football on tv, plays poker with the guys, never lifts a finger around the house, and who brings home the bacon. They can call themselves whatever they damn well want to. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778/140 "2019-07-16T14:36:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Well couldnt a gay couple where one man kind of takes the role of a female in the relationship and acts more feminine while the other is more masculine, couldnt the feminine one call himself the “wife”? I think you don’t understand gay relationships. Two gay men are still two men. You are misled by stereotyping. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-comfortable-with-gay-people-using-the-terms-my-husband-or-my-wife/836778.md?page=8)