# Are you feeling enough shame and guilt, you bad women? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783 "2014-06-27T15:36:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/21 "2014-06-27T17:39:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve got your cookies right here, woman! > Right here on this plate, that is-freshly baked cinnamon raisin. If you don’t like cinnamon raisin, I’ve got Tollhouse cookies that’ll be ready in about 15 minutes. Would you like a glass of milk to go with? Tollhouse and a glass of milk would be lovely. I like cinnamon, but I’ll admit to a strong dislike of raisins. They are the Hector\_St\_Clare of food. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/22 "2014-06-27T17:42:06Z")
> [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > I’ve been told there are cookies. Where are the cookies? Do I get cookies if I have an abortion? > > Well done, **faithfool**. ::golf clap:: They’ll be done in just a minute, sir. Please content yourself in the mean time with scantily clad, nubile young women, palm fronds and these grapes. \< leaves with head bowed \> > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Holy shit. > > Like faithfool, I decided to look this guy up. Wow. Precisely. Scary hilarious, isn’t it? > [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I’m pretty sure he’s the same Hector St. Clare who comments on the insufferable pearl-clutching square Rod Dreher’s blog on The American Conservative. Undoubtedly. Another was one that apparently is only aimed at strict, orthodox Catholics. I forget what stripe, but apparently they find him bugshit insane too. Whee! ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/23 "2014-06-27T17:43:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Tollhouse and a glass of milk would be lovely. > > I like cinnamon, but I’ll admit to a strong dislike of raisins. They are the Hector\_St\_Clare of food. Maybe that’s why he chose that name? Hectoring other people (if women can be called that) seems to be his stock in trade. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/24 "2014-06-27T17:44:47Z")
Will \*none \*of you kind ladies volunteer to get the poor guy laid so he can lighten up a little? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/25 "2014-06-27T17:45:01Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I’m pretty sure he’s the same Hector St. Clare who comments on the insufferable pearl-clutching square Rod Dreher’s blog on The American Conservative. I just saw him say that forced labor camps would be good for people, remembered how he said abortion was worse than slavery, put two and two together and made like a leaf and got out of there. ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/26 "2014-06-27T17:47:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You get cookies if you have a uterus and a man tells you to have cookies AND NOT ONE MINUTE SOONER. I am in possession of an uterus; however, I’m uncertain about this man-thing. Should it be my husband as I am obviously submitting to his authority, or can it be just some random dude? Maybe Czarcasm? I do have an idea for a new product: Nabisco Abortion Cookies. I’m gonna make a _killing!_ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/27 "2014-06-27T17:49:31Z")
> [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > I am in possession of an uterus; however, I’m uncertain about this man-thing. Should it be my husband as I am obviously submitting to his authority, or can it be just some random dude? Maybe Czarcasm? Don’t look at me-I’m usually a sub. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/28 "2014-06-27T17:50:08Z")
> [@Jungian\_Camisole](#): > > I am in possession of an uterus; however, I’m uncertain about this man-thing. Should it be my husband as I am obviously submitting to his authority, or can it be just some random dude? Maybe Czarcasm? > > I do have an idea for a new product: Nabisco Abortion Cookies. I’m gonna make a _killing!_ It can be a random internet dude. That’s where Hector\_St\_Clare gets his mighty, mighty power and respect. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/29 "2014-06-27T17:51:46Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I just saw him say that forced labor camps would be good for people, remembered how he said abortion was worse than slavery, put two and two together and made like a leaf and got out of there. Oh dear. The \*Handmaid’s Tale \*was supposed to be dystopian and a novel. Maybe no one remembered to tell him. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/30 "2014-06-27T18:02:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Will \*none \*of you kind ladies volunteer to get the poor guy laid so he can lighten up a little? 😉 I think we’d all rather fuck a porcupine. The guy probably thinks that a woman who gets an abortion should be forced to have an identifying mark somewhere. Which is amusing and ironic as many women feel the exact same way about people like him. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/31 "2014-06-27T18:10:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Will \*none \*of you kind ladies volunteer to get the poor guy laid so he can lighten up a little? 😉 He’s disgusting because of his ideas, and they spring from his lousy mind, not from not getting sex. Plenty of men don’t have sex and they are good, kind, worthwhile people. Getting laid is not going to help him not be a lousy person. And no one should have sex with someone who doesn’t respect their rights, doesn’t agree with them about contraception and abortion, and who can’t type “pussy.” ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/32 "2014-06-27T18:31:26Z")
Are you saying only a pussy won’t type pussy out? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/33 "2014-06-27T18:36:08Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Are you saying only a pussy won’t type pussy out? I’m just saying that if you’re afraid of the word, maybe you should finish 9th grade first. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/34 "2014-06-27T19:06:37Z")
What about other euphemisms? Like vajayjay? I like '_the Golden Palace of the Himalayas’_. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/35 "2014-06-27T19:21:58Z")
a damn fine pitting, I applaud Faithfool. but the hell with the cookie talk: cheese and crackers for all! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/36 "2014-06-27T19:37:17Z")
Beer and wings OK too? ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/37 "2014-06-27T19:42:42Z")
Slavery is not something that has ended, even in the U.S. (humans are trafficked and enslaved here too, daily; it’s not simply a “third world” problem). As for the notion that a woman is “enslaved” if she chooses to give birth, well, I can’t get on board with that one. No woman is obligated to keep and raise a child; there is psychological damage any way you slice it (you feel bad for having gotten an abortion generally; you feel bad for giving up a child you cannot properly raise or do not want, and hope that you’re doing the right thing). It’s also true that, as a practical matter, our society would be much better off if more women chose to have an abortion or give their child up for adoption (that is, if they or the males can’t get a handle on contraception). It is also true, if you accept the analysis revealed by Freakonomics, that legal abortion of unwanted fetuses has since the 1970s resulted in quite a decrease overall in crime and related negative-impact issues. (This makes sense if one understands that unwanted and/or neglected humans “raised” by unwanted and/or neglected humans makes for someone with a propensity to wind up struggling.) Who knows whether the same would be true if adoptions replaced abortions; I suspect not, since it isn’t a given that all parents who adopt are well-equipped and emotionally healthy. I’d posit that a significant portion of parents are ill-equipped (or just ill) and emotionally messed up (no one has to point fingers at their own nutter parent or parents; you and they know who is what, generally). ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/38 "2014-06-27T19:52:29Z")
And as for the “baby killer” moniker, unless the “baby” can live outside the womb, that’s an almost always inaccurate, inappropriate label. I’d accept “fetus killer”. Any fool who says abortion is “easy” for the vast majority of women should have the insides of his dick scooped or vacuumed out without anesthesia. I firmly believe it is true that if males were capable of pregnancy and birth, abortions would be the most popular medical procedure men obtained and ahead of virtually all others in any way related to their dicks. (I also suspect that one wouldn’t need to be a licensed physician to perform one; there would be authorized abortion-at-home kits, if not the ability to get one at the barber shop along with a shave.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/39 "2014-06-27T19:53:40Z")
_buzzkill_ ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783/40 "2014-06-27T20:03:53Z")
Men like that love fetuses – innocent creatures who can’t talk back or offer an opinion they dislike. Once half the fetuses leave the womb, grow up and turn into women . . . not so much. I just love it when such men show up and start writing about the “inconvenience” and “discomfort” of pregnancy. My last birth was eight and a half pounds of baby and over twelve hours of incredibly difficult labor. My husband was completely exhausted from the whole thing and all he did was watch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-feeling-enough-shame-and-guilt-you-bad-women/691783.md?page=3)