# Are you for the death penalty or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686 "2009-08-17T02:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/301 "2009-08-24T23:19:53Z")
> [@Hentzau](#): > > Since it is not a deterrent, there is only one reason for it to remain on the books: because we like it. And that’s not a good reason? If my daughter had been tortured to death by Norris and Bittaker, you bet your bottom dollar I’d rather have them killed than know that even one penny of my taxes were going to feed and shelter them. Sure, it’s expensive to kill someone, but folks are generally more willing to accept expenditures to make sure justice is done than they are to accept paying for fiends like Roy and Larry to be housed and fed. There’s something to be said for that. And it’s not right for courts to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/302 "2009-08-24T23:47:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :dubious: I find that hard to believe. What justice would that serve? Tell me you would not be exhausting every appeal you could think of? > > And what about said guilty person, who was still walking the streets? The only point I can see to the question you originally asked is that you want someone to say “Oh no, it could happen to me. I’d better not support this anymore!”. I’m aware that mistakes happen and that is horrible. The fact that said mistake could happen to me doesn’t change my opinion on the overall subject. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/303 "2009-08-25T01:32:52Z")
> [@TheFatKid](#): > > How about these categories: > > ~ People who are so hot-headed, violent, and out of control that they’re a danger to society. > ~ People who enjoy watching other people suffer and die. > ~ People who love power and live outside the law anyway and don’t give a damn who suffers or dies. That’s what prisons are for. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/304 "2009-08-25T01:40:55Z")
> [@TheFatKid](#): > > That’s not how I read it. Some folks seem to be of the opinion that it can’t be perfectly administered, but on the whole it’s better to have it than not even so, but again, I don’t know of anyone who _wants_ it to be badly administered. They want to keep on doing it, it is badly administered; therefore they want a badly administered death penalty. Especially the ones who want to make it _ **easier** _ to execute people; they may not say that they want a “badly administered” death penalty in so many words, but that is what they _ **actually want** _ because a competent administration of the DP will get in the way of killing the maximum number of people. > [@TheFatKid](#): > > And that’s not a good reason? > > If my daughter had been tortured to death by Norris and Bittaker, you bet your bottom dollar I’d rather have them killed than know that even one penny of my taxes were going to feed and shelter them. > > Sure, it’s expensive to kill someone, but folks are generally more willing to accept expenditures to make sure justice is done than they are to accept paying for fiends like Roy and Larry to be housed and fed. > > There’s something to be said for that. And it’s not right for courts to ignore it. The courts aren’t ignoring it; they are already killing people simply to indulge out collective bloodlust. And what if it turned out that the wrong people were executed? Would you care? Probably not, given the general attitude of death penalty supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/305 "2009-08-25T01:48:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They want to keep on doing it, it is badly administered; therefore they want a badly administered death penalty. Especially the ones who want to make it _ **easier** _ to execute people; they may not say that they want a “badly administered” death penalty in so many words, but that is what they _ **actually want** _ because a competent administration of the DP will get in the way of killing the maximum number of people. > > The courts aren’t ignoring it; they are already killing people simply to indulge out collective bloodlust. > > And what if it turned out that the wrong people were executed? Would you care? Probably not, given the general attitude of death penalty supporters. No offense, but do you have a cite for this? You’re starting to sound like a left-wing version of a Freeper, **Der Trihs**. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/306 "2009-08-25T11:59:25Z")
> [@TheFatKid](#): > > How about these categories: > > ~ People who are so hot-headed, violent, and out of control that they’re a danger to society. > ~ People who enjoy watching other people suffer and die. > ~ People who love power and live outside the law anyway and don’t give a damn who suffers or dies. All three can be resolved by depriving them of their liberty and giving them priveliges based on their cooperation. Non-cooperation = minimum expense spared on keeping them comfortable. Btw, great post **Hentzau**. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/307 "2009-08-25T12:04:56Z")
> [@TheFatKid](#): > > And that’s not a good reason? > > If my daughter had been tortured to death by Norris and Bittaker, you bet your bottom dollar I’d rather have them killed than know that even one penny of my taxes were going to feed and shelter them. And what happens when the next victim’s loved ones are not happy unless the perpetrator is ripped limb from limb? Or totally opposite, believes the offender doesn’t deserve to die, but everyone else does? The victims - ie. the true victims, those who are left behind - are the last people who should be getting a say in these matters. They should just receive the states best counselling. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/308 "2009-08-25T16:23:13Z")
Yes, I’m 100% FOR the death penalty and for the following crimes: murder (including abortion), various indirect deaths (hit & run, drunk driving, neglectful death,), treason, espionage, piracy, and terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/309 "2009-08-25T16:26:35Z")
You’re going to die a very unhappy man. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/310 "2009-08-25T16:28:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re going to die a very unhappy man. Who, me? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/311 "2009-08-25T16:30:36Z")
Because the course of history is inexorably moving away from you. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/312 "2009-08-25T16:32:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because the course of history is inexorably moving away from you. The United States has restored the death penalty not restricted it and many states have been getting more tough on crime by restoring the death penalty. The reason why it’s not implemented today is because of the Supreme Court and their illogical belief that somehow lethal injection is cruel to cold-blooded killers. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/313 "2009-08-25T17:09:09Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The United States has restored the death penalty not restricted it… It was restored in 1973, by the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Hentzau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Hentzau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentzau)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/314 "2009-08-25T17:14:47Z")
I personally believe that crime is not a disease, it is a symptom. Getting tough on the symptoms while ignoring the disease cannot bring about a cure. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/315 "2009-08-25T17:18:35Z")
> [@Hentzau](#): > > I personally believe that crime is not a disease, it is a symptom. Getting tough on the symptoms while ignoring the disease cannot bring about a cure. What is the disease then? And stop before you say “Social-economic problems…” because a whole bunch of criminals come from rich or middle class backgrounds who enjoy commiting crime for the fun of it or revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/316 "2009-08-25T17:27:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does Scalia count? Certainly. Do you have a quote from him saying that guilty or innocent doesn’t matter to him; he just wants someone dead? If so, by all means post it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/317 "2009-08-25T17:38:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No offense, but do you have a cite for this? This thread. A lack of concern for the lives of innocents has been repeatedly expressed by the pro-death penalty posters. As for the courts allowing executions in the name of bloodlust, as pointed out, the Supreme Court has ruled that it’s not illegal to execute the innocent, which pretty much rules out any purpose but bloodlust. Killing because we enjoy it, not because it accomplishes anything useful. Justice; revenge; the protection of society all go out the window as rational motives for the death penalty if you don’t care about killing innocents. ---
**Author:** ![Hentzau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Hentzau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentzau)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/318 "2009-08-25T17:47:39Z")
I’m not sure you really want an answer to your question, you seem to like your current belief set. But if you really want an answer a short parable may be of help. To avoid taking up too much space I’ll hide it here: [spoiler]A master was approached in his home by a man who told him that he was interested in getting some of this enlightenment stuff, but every other master he’d seen told him he’d have to change his profession. He was a thief and he liked being a thief and he wasn’t going to change, so don’t waste my time. The master said okay, you can stay in you lifestyle if you like it, and taught him anyway. After a while, the thief came to him again and said, “You bastard! You’ve ruined me! When I want to knock someone over the head and take their money I realize that myself and the victim are the same person - it’s my head, and my money and I’d be stealing from myself! When I want to break into someone’s house and steal their stuff I realize that the person who owns that house and I are the same person and I’d be stealing from myself! I can’t make a living anymore!”[/spoiler]In short, the disease is the lack of empathy brought about by treating the illusion of separateness as if it were reality. Rich or poor, people who “get it” don’t commit crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/319 "2009-08-25T18:59:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Certainly. Do you have a quote from him saying that guilty or innocent doesn’t matter to him; he just wants someone dead? If so, by all means post it. No, but if you look upthread you’ll see a quote from him essentially saying that if the criminal justice system fails to establish the innocence of an innocent man, tough titties. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/320 "2009-08-25T19:36:33Z")
> [@Hentzau](#): > > Rich or poor, people who “get it” don’t commit crimes. I don’t get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686.md?page=17)