# Are you for the death penalty or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686 "2009-08-17T02:47:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/21 "2009-08-17T08:11:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > People have a right to kill people if the person’s life is being threatened. You realize that, right? If someone breaks into my home with a gun, and I shoot him in the heart with a crossbow and kill him, I am within my rights to do so. Murderers actually have one of the lowest recidivism rates. Not to say they shouldn’t be punished or that some of them don’t continue to present a threat, but it’s not accurate to suggest that it’s essentially preemptitive self-defense. Not only that, but your plan (in your first post) would just make juries hesitant to convict in many cases, knowing what was at stake and that there were few safeguards or allowances for mitigating factors. Or maybe they’d just convict on manslaughter even though it was really murder…stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/22 "2009-08-17T08:14:00Z")
Philosophically, I am pro-death penalty for certain crimes, when guilt has been admitted or established beyond a reasonable doubt. Though I wish the process was done more efficiently, quicker, and cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/23 "2009-08-17T08:17:38Z")
Against. Just because we won’t execute someone does not mean there is no ‘top pillar or justice’ either. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/24 "2009-08-17T08:34:54Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > Philosophically, I am pro-death penalty for certain crimes, when guilt has been admitted or established beyond a reasonable doubt. Well, I don’t think anyone is going to say they’re for the death penalty when guilt has NOT been established. That’s the same standard as for any conviction…and yet, innocent people are still convicted of crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/25 "2009-08-17T08:34:59Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > Philosophically, I am pro-death penalty for certain crimes, when guilt has been admitted or established beyond a reasonable doubt. > > Though I wish the process was done more efficiently, quicker, and cheaper. The case that always swings it for me is [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed). The guy confessed and there was “clear” evidence linking him to the crime, so there was no reasonable doubt at the time that he was guilty. So he met all three of your citeria - hideous child murder, clear evidence and a confession. Except it was later proved he couldn’t have been guilty and was mentally impaired and only confessed under intense police pressure. He’d have been a clear candidate for the noose, but his later exoneration would not have helped him once the trapdoor had opened. So that’s why I’m against the death penalty in practice, even though sometimes you feel it’s deserved in individual cases. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/26 "2009-08-17T08:49:02Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/27 "2009-08-17T08:54:34Z")
I am completely opposed to the death penalty and have been as long as I can remember. No exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/28 "2009-08-17T10:28:03Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > People have a right to kill people if the person’s life is being threatened. You realize that, right? If someone breaks into my home with a gun, and I shoot him in the heart with a crossbow and kill him, I am within my rights to do so. 1. There is a difference between killing someone to save yourself and killing them when they are no longer a threat. 2. We have reasonable force laws so I don’t necessarily share that right with you. 3. I agree with the reasonable force laws (though that’s a topic for another thread). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/29 "2009-08-17T10:49:12Z")
Like others, I’m against it on practical terms. Our justice system is run by humans, and humans make mistakes. When we impose a penalty that can never be revoked, we are claiming a degree of perfection to which we are not entitled. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/30 "2009-08-17T11:21:05Z")
Absolutely not. The main reasons have already been covered here. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/31 "2009-08-17T11:28:55Z")
Against. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/32 "2009-08-17T12:04:33Z")
I support it for the entertainment value alone. If it makes people feel better, especially the family members of the victim(s), then that is the best we can hope for. I don’t place humans on a pedestal either. If we put down aggressive dogs, I don’t see why we shouldn’t do the same to our fellow primates. One of my best childhood friends was up for the death penalty for executing a perfectly innocent man while he was on his knees begging for mercy. I was disappointed when my former friend didn’t get the DP. He got life in Angola instead which I think was an injustice. It doesn’t get a lot more personal than that on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/33 "2009-08-17T12:27:57Z")
**Are you for the death penalty or not?** Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/34 "2009-08-17T13:28:26Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I have a very strong conviction in the idea of a social contract and I believe those who do malicious harm to others have violated this social contract and therefore forfeited all of their rights. I would be happy to see convicted murderers, armed robbers and rapists killed very swiftly. [How do you feel about killing _innocent_ convicted murderers, armed robbers and rapists?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/35 "2009-08-17T13:30:13Z")
Yes, for anyone who kills an innocent person for no reason. Double for serial killers, mass murderers and spree killers. I’ve yet to meet a police officer who wasn’t for the death penalty. Some people just like killing, with continue to kill if released. and don’t deserve to live. Ann Rule Ted Bundy and tried to have his life spared twice. The last time she visited him in prison she realized he was guilty and he did deserve to die. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/36 "2009-08-17T14:24:20Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Completely. I’m in favor of death for murder, rape, armed robbery and treason to the country. I think there should be one appeal, and after that, death by hanging. It wouldn’t be expensive if they just did the damn thing in an efficient way. > > I don’t have any sympathy for felons whatsoever; I don’t think they should be allowed to spend years in “crime college,” raping other inmates, doing drugs and joining gangs, on the taxpayer’s dime. > > I have a very strong conviction in the idea of a social contract and I believe those who do malicious harm to others have violated this social contract and therefore forfeited all of their rights. I would be happy to see convicted murderers, armed robbers and rapists killed very swiftly. Quoted because it’s succinct and true. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/37 "2009-08-17T14:34:45Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > Philosophically, I am pro-death penalty for certain crimes, when guilt has been admitted or established beyond a reasonable doubt. > > Though I wish the process was done more efficiently, quicker, and cheaper. +1 There are new advances in forensics coming all the time wheich make positive proof more available than previously [and yes I will also agree that DNA has been exhonerating people currently named as guilty _because the DNA procedures did NOT exist when they went to trial_ that would not have been found guilty if that tech had existed at that time] There are some people who are so damaged they are not human, and instead of warehousing them, they should be put down with as much passion as a rabid dog. Many career gang members _are_ rabid dogs, and should be put down. When someone commits enough violent crimes that they have spent most of their lives in jail there is something wrong with them that we obviously can not repair. it may have started with society failing them, but that time passed long ago and they are irreparable at this time, we should stop warehousing them. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/38 "2009-08-17T15:09:03Z")
Against. I don’t think it’s right to willfully and deliberately take another’s life, be it a fetus or a criminal or a mentally ill or physically handicapped person. I am for true life imprisonment with forced labor for convicted murders and rapists, however. StG ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/39 "2009-08-17T15:12:13Z")
I’m in favor of it, but I’d like to see some changes. Let’s have a Constitutional Amendment adding 3 more Justices to the SCOTUS. Each judicial term, they draw lots and three of them are selected as a Death Penalty Tribunal, with the proviso that a justice cannot serve two consecutive terms. The other nine do business as usual. Now, a capital conviction in the state court is appealed to the state appellate court. If it is upheld, it is appealed into the Federal system and it goes directly to the tribunal. If they uphold it, that’s it and sentence is carried out with 72 hours. It is absolutely ridiculous for a capital conviction to take twenty years to be carried out. That twenty years is paid for by the taxpayers. This way, the sentence is carried out within five years and a bucket of money is saved. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686/40 "2009-08-17T15:14:27Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Now, a capital conviction in the state court is appealed to the state appellate court. If it is upheld, it is appealed into the Federal system and it goes directly to the tribunal. If they uphold it, that’s it and sentence is carried out with 72 hours. Why on earth would the SCOTUS need to be involved in a case not involving a federal question? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-for-the-death-penalty-or-not/506686.md?page=3)