# Are you kidding me? Downloads on the Column page **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 18, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169 "2016-08-18T14:21:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/41 "2016-08-19T15:18:15Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > People like to complain about the ads, but here’s the simple reality of it. This site is not a charity. The SDMB and the Straight Dope web site overall have to profitable. As long as ads vector malware or render the site unusable, I’ll use AdBlock. Companies need to be responsible for the behavior of advertisers they permit on their sites. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/42 "2016-08-19T17:07:50Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > And that’s where you went wrong. Sadly, the people interested in injecting malware in advertising are very clever. Even Google’s [advertising](http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/19/6537511/google-ad-network-exposed-millions-of-computers-to-malware) has had malware problems. > > I personally run noscript, which blocks scripting from running on websites that I don’t allow it to run on, and I’m more restrictive than the defaults. For instance, Google was the first domain I removed from the whitelist. If you want to show me ads, I have no problem with that. You can do that without running code on my machine. If you want to run arbitrary code on my machine just because I visited a website that includes content from yours? Possibly without their knowledge because their site is either coded badly or hasn’t been updated in eons and is hacked? Umm, no thanks. That’s the technological equivalent of eating stuff you find on the sidewalk, these days. > > Now, browsing under this regime of only allowing about 10 websites to run scripts by default is a little bit of a pain in the ass sometimes. If I actually want to watch a video, knowing the specific set of sites I need to allow to load scripts to watch it can be kind of like a puzzle game. The site that actually loads the video is often loaded by other sites, which are themselves loaded by other sites. For instance, [googlevideo.com](http://googlevideo.com) is loaded by script called from [ytimg.com](http://ytimg.com), which itself is loaded by a script from [youtube.com](http://youtube.com). That’s a short chain, that yeah, I run through often. They’re only given temporary permissions when I’m watching the video. So, if I forget to revoke them when I’m done watching, they’re revoked the next time I restart the browser. That’s a relatively short chain of websites to watch a video these days, and sometimes I do actually just go find a place where it requires fewer sites being given scripting permission to watch the same content. > > Is it worth going through all of that to prevent your computer becoming infected? To me, yes. I work in hosting, Sometimes it’s part of my job to visit some sketchy sites. Knowing that they’re going to have to leverage some hack loading their code from non-executable data being loaded in a browser goes a long way; those are rare hacks. Also, knowing that I’m not likely to get fired because my workstation has been compromised by some poorly-vetted ad system and since has been found to be compromising our customer’s data is pretty valuable to me, as well. I’ve only personally known that to happen once, in what probably amounts to the dark ages of the internet now, but I’ve seen someone get fired because of that. > > Yep, the web often looks like it’s stuck in 2000 to my browser. Even then, the majority of sites are functional for my purposes without giving them permissions to run scripts. I was shown lots of ads in 2000, and they were mighty annoying. They could fall back to that tech when they’re blocked from running scripts, for example Google gives me no grief on their search page without scripts being allowed, but for what ever reason the ad providers don’t. That’s not my fault or problem. > TL;DR: You expected a chain of instructions provided to you by what amounts to a random list of people who paid for a chance to get on your particular list to be always perfectly usable and not cause you harm, given human nature? Ok, good luck with that. Le sigh. I am a network infrastructure engineer. I install/configure and maintain servers (Windows/CentOs/Linux presently, other stuff in the past),network security including firewalls (mainly Cisco ASAs, but have some Check Point and Sonicwall and others) and AV (we went managed on the AV side. YAY! t somene else cleans up infections that happen at work), storage (NetApp, EMC for the most part but I dealt with a bunch of other SANs), install and configure routers/multilayer switches/switches (mainly Cisco but have dealt with all kinds, Adtran, Dell, etc) and do PCs and all the peripherals as well. I manage my companies DNS, both external and internal. We have restricted DNS for the customer support folks so I know all about that. I manage Active Directory, Exchange (used to be local but we recently migrated to a hosted solution). I do it all, unpacking, racking, cabling, configuring hardware, delivering new environments to the developers, configuring our MPLS and internet access and ensuring it works properly, providing new DBs to our DB folks, manage firewalls and deal with attacks (just the other day someone in Georgia (the country, not the state) was attacking our ftp server. A firewall rule stopped that right quick). I do this for a company that has federal contracts so we have to meet all the FISMA requirements. I have done virus removal (second level support for AOL virus removal team way back in the late 90s) and dealt with large outbreaks at companies I worked for as well as tracking back the source. My personal PCs are all adequately protected. I could lock them down real tight but I want them to be usable. For anything I am iffy about I use my CentOs box which is a VM that sits in my DMZ on my home network. In other words, I know _exactly_ what I am doing. I have had one infection on my personal PCs (I have 5 not including laptops) in the last couple years. That came from my sister who sent me an infected attachment. It took me about 30 minutes to clean up. My PCs get regular virus and malware scans, the software is regularly updated and I also keep all my machines backed up so that, if bad does happen, I just restore. I am moving to all VMs at home, which will be backed up nightly. The only physical machines I will be the hosts and a couple laptops. I could do a boot from network thing for the laptops but that sorta kills the usefulness when we go out of town. I expect business I frequent to provide reliable, safe services. This is the only site I routinely visit that has these problems. I don’t want to run adblockers because I don’t have a problem anywhere else. As others have pointed out, almost all other websites have ads. And most of those (that I frequent anyway) don’t try to push PDFs or other junk to my PCs disguised as an ad. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/43 "2016-08-19T17:08:01Z")
Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. For me, the math is: I like it here, and I want to make sure the board stays in operation. I’m happy to contribute. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/44 "2016-08-19T17:24:23Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. > > For me, the math is: I like it here, and I want to make sure the board stays in operation. I’m happy to contribute. Maybe it’s a philosophical reason, but I don’t pay anywhere else, so I don’t expect to pay here. And as long as paying remains an option, I’ll continue to be a guest. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/45 "2016-08-19T18:37:40Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. > > For me, the math is: I like it here, and I want to make sure the board stays in operation. I’m happy to contribute. I don’t pay because I can get the same thing for free. Simple as that. Originally I paid because you HAD to in order to post, and then to use the search engine. Once that was no longer the case, I no longer saw a reason to do so. I have an adblocker for the ads (note: if you’re a paying member, you should use one anyways – you’d be crazy to go online without one) There’s no “philosophical” about it. I’ll admit I’m LESS willing to pay due to the “those who don’t pay get bombarded with shady ads and spamware” attitude, but that’s not nearly the main reason. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/46 "2016-08-19T19:35:58Z")
It’s not a philosophical decision, it’s a simple cost/benefit analysis. What do I get out of paying? A title under my name. So yeah, not worth it. If this was a paid message board, I still wouldn’t pay – I don’t post often enough to make it worth it. If it was pay to read? Probably do get enough out of it to pay in that case, but pay to read boards are something I’m opposed to so I would leave rather than pay. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/47 "2016-08-19T19:45:05Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. > > For me, the math is: I like it here, and I want to make sure the board stays in operation. I’m happy to contribute. From what I understand, the ads under discussion come from the main page and you’ll see those ads whether or not you’re logged into the message boards, so paying would not solve the specific problem in this thread anyway. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/48 "2016-08-19T20:33:01Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > I expect business I frequent to provide reliable, safe services. This is the only site I routinely visit that has these problems. I don’t want to run adblockers because I don’t have a problem anywhere else. As others have pointed out, almost all other websites have ads. And most of those (that I frequent anyway) don’t try to push PDFs or other junk to my PCs disguised as an ad. > > Slee So, you don’t regularly use any site who’s ads were served by Google in your naked browser? I find that hard to believe, and they’ve repeatedly served out malware contained in their ads. Just because you haven’t gotten burned yet doesn’t mean there’s a problem, and that problem is far from contained to the SDMB. I’m sorry, from here it looks like you know how this works, but you’ve taken a position counter to your own knowledge for some principle which isn’t clear to me. If you want to do that, that’s fine, but your resume makes me less inclined to have sympathy for your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/49 "2016-08-19T21:58:03Z")
This board can only continue to exist if it draws in new users. New users are not going to pay right away. But they will run away from crappy, malware ridden ads. (Or use adblockers which reduces the incentive to pay later.) The “Shut up or pay up” attitude completely misses this crucial point. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/50 "2016-08-19T22:36:06Z")
Because this site is run by people who care so little about their users that they repeatedly serve them the worst ads on the internet, I don’t for a second believe that their greed would be satisfied if they received enough money from paying members to keep the lights on. If the ads improved, I’d pay again. But a no-interaction download of a pdf on my phone because I accidentally came here with javascript turned on? Fuck that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/51 "2016-08-19T22:57:38Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. > > For me, the math is: I like it here, and I want to make sure the board stays in operation. I’m happy to contribute. Why don’t I pay? I’m relatively new here. I am not in the habit of paying to participate in web fora. This is one of 5 web fora that I’m at least somewhat active in, and it’s the only one that has asked me to pay. (One asked me to donate years ago, promising absolutely no benefit whatsoever except the chance of helping the board. But they got the funding they needed and haven’t asked for any money in many years. I would have donated, but they stopped the request before I got around to doing so, by the way.) That doesn’t mean I have a philosophical objection to paying. I do pay for a lot of Android apps, some of which can be used for free with ads, and some of which can be used for free without ads, but which request a payment if you like them. So I’m not opposed to paying for software. and in general, if I like an Android app and can get rid of the ads by paying, I will do that. So the idea of paying to keep a good site up and running is one I am willing to entertain. But this site doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy. It serves really nasty ads, for instance. Which makes me feel that it isn’t the sort of thing I want to support. If it were a cleaner site, and it seemed to me that user payments was what kept it that way, I might well be moved to donate. But the way it is? Hell no. I’ll use an adblocker, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/52 "2016-08-20T00:09:17Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > [just to be clear, I’m speaking as a poster and not as a moderator] > > In all honesty, I’ve never been able to understand this point of view. The idea that the folks who own the SDMB are trying to run some kind of extortion racket just seems silly to me. From my point of view, it looks like they are just trying to keep the SDMB profitable. > > Do you seriously think that the folks that run the SDMB are trying to extort you? First of all let’s be honest, SD has had a history of being a conduit for malware. It is not just one or two isolated incidences. My comment is not directed at the owners per se but when members go “Holy crap! My computer was just hit with malicious software through an SD ad.” and the solution from another poster is “Just pay and you won’t have to worry about it.” they\* make it _sound_ like an extortion racket. So I call them out on it. No one should have to pay to be reasonably safe from malware. \*I know they don’t speak for the ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/53 "2016-08-20T02:19:28Z")
Do we really want new posters too stupid to use ad blockers? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/54 "2016-08-20T06:14:26Z")
If anyone does get a download from the main page (or anywhere else here), if you can provide any additional info like what ad was being displayed at the time, please post it here. Ads aren’t supposed to automatically download stuff. We can get a block put on those but I need to know what ads are the problem so they know which ones to block. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/55 "2016-08-20T06:48:58Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > If anyone does get a download from the main page (or anywhere else here), if you can provide any additional info like what ad was being displayed at the time, please post it here. Ads aren’t supposed to automatically download stuff. We can get a block put on those but I need to know what ads are the problem so they know which ones to block. Thank you **e\_c\_g** for trying to get on top off this and help out the posters. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/56 "2016-08-20T18:17:35Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Do we really want new posters too stupid to use ad blockers? Yes. Knowledge in one area doesn’t predict knowledge in another. Plus there are those who aren’t too stupid, they just have ethical problems with them. These tend to be principled people with a fairly decent amount of knowledge. If they have to get adblock for one site, they won’t bother. And TPTB definitely want new people without adblock, since that gets them money. Remember, there wasn’t enough money from paid subscriptions alone. And, since our goal is to fight ignorance, we kinda do want the ignorant coming here–as long as they learn. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/57 "2016-08-20T18:29:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Do we really want new posters too stupid to use ad blockers? Charming. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/58 "2016-08-20T18:45:33Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > If anyone does get a download from the main page (or anywhere else here), if you can provide any additional info like what ad was being displayed at the time, please post it here. Ads aren’t supposed to automatically download stuff. We can get a block put on those but I need to know what ads are the problem so they know which ones to block. I got the auto-downloaded PDF, but there’s no way I’m going to open it to find out what’s in it. I’m happy to send it to you to open in an email. Let me know. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/59 "2016-08-20T19:37:24Z")
Oh definitely DO NOT OPEN IT. What we need to know is what ad (if any) was being displayed on the page at the time. Don’t bother e-mailing it. If it contains a virus the e-mail system will likely filter it off anyway. A screenshot of the thing trying to download might give the URL of where it is coming from as well. You can e-mail screenshots to me (address is on my profile). ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169/60 "2016-08-20T20:53:28Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Tell me if I should start another thread in IMHO for this please, but could some of you explain to me why you will not pay? I’m getting the sense that it’s a philosophical decision and I’d like to understand it better. A few months ago, there was an [IMHO thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19333116) in which the cheapskates were asked to explain themselves. You might want to check that out. There are probably more threads if you want to search for them; it seems to be a perennial topic here. I don’t pay because it simply isn’t worth $15 to me. If I was told “pay up or leave,” I’d leave without a second thought. Many members have argued that $15 is a trivial amount of money; well, not to me it isn’t. I’m not broke, but one of the reasons I’m not is that I generally don’t pay for things that are free. Although I run an adblocker, I have no problem whitelisting sites I enjoy and/or use regularly; I’ve done that many times. However, the SDMB is the major exception. I won’t whitelist the Dope because the ads are horrible, highly intrusive, and pose a danger to my computer. If that ever changes, I’ll reconsider. **puzzlegal** [mentioned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19567874&postcount=51) upthread that the SDMB is the only forum she frequents that asks for payment. I’d point out, however, that as far as I know the SDMB hasn’t proactively asked for payment since pay-to-post ended; presently all of the pressure to join comes from other paid members (if I’m wrong about that, and I’ve simply missed the membership drives or “please join” posts from Ed Zotti or the moderators, please correct me). The paid membership option is tucked away at the bottom of the user control panel menu where most people would never notice it, and makes no mention of any benefits of joining. The impression I’ve gotten is that the option is offered as a sop to people who really, really want to pay for whatever reason. It baffles me that paying is framed by some members as a moral imperative. The Dope isn’t a charity; it’s owned by Sun-Times Media, a major media corporation. They are monetizing 16 years of valuable content (provided free of charge by members) which frequently appears in Google searches. I seriously doubt that $15 memberships are what’s “keeping the lights on” here. As far as I’m concerned, making contributions to the Dope because you enjoy it is like sending a check to CBS because you like _Criminal Minds_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-kidding-me-downloads-on-the-column-page/763169.md?page=4)