# Are you offended by this cartoon? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404 "2004-05-04T03:20:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/1 "2004-05-04T03:20:53Z")
[Ted Rall online](http://www.ucomics.com/rallcom/) It’s a Ted Rall cartoon about Pat Tillman. I think it makes some defensible points about Bush and the exploitation of patriotism and US soldiers. I’m not sure that it was appropriate to call Tillman an “idiot,” though. Naive, maybe, but “idiot” is over the top and really derails his other points which I am sympathetic too. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/2 "2004-05-04T03:28:30Z")
Of course it’s offensive - it was _designed_ to be as offensive as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/3 "2004-05-04T04:21:45Z")
He may as well have spit in the face of Tillman’s family. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/4 "2004-05-04T04:28:36Z")
Yep…it offends me, that’s for sure. Of course, that was Rall’s point, I’m sure. I’d love to have the chance to help Mr. Rall some day, just so I can walk right on by, spitting on him as I pass… ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/5 "2004-05-04T04:38:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m not sure that it was appropriate to call Tillman an “idiot,” though. Naive, maybe, but “idiot” is over the top and really derails his other points which I am sympathetic too. This statement _seems_ to imply that you have no objection to the cartoonist’s accusation that Cpl. Tillman joined the Army primarily to “kill Arabs.” But surely that is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/6 "2004-05-04T04:46:49Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > This statement _seems_ to imply that you have no objection to the cartoonist’s accusation that Cpl. Tillman joined the Army primarily to “kill Arabs.” > > But surely that is not the case. Yeah, I forgot about that part. I have no idea what Tillman’s motivations were but I don’t think it’s cool to impugn him that way after he was KIA. The stuff I agreed with was the Bush bashing stuff. I think Rall could have made his points better by holding up Tillman as an example of someone with good (and perhaps naive) intentions who was exploited for political reasons. Of course, even that would have more impact if Pat Tillman had been killed in Iraq instead of Afghanistan. Insulting those soldiers who have been KIA just pisses people off and detracts from any greater point. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/7 "2004-05-04T04:52:40Z")
> [@](#): > > The stuff I agreed with was the Bush bashing stuff. I think Rall could have made his points better by holding up Tillman as an example of someone with good (and perhaps naive) intentions who was exploited for political reasons. That’s what bothered me. Really, the cartoon has nothing to do with Tillman. Rall just projected everything he disliked about the war onto the very public figure of Tillman to try to make a sharper point. The cartoon could have been run anytime without Tillman’s name on it, and serve the same purpose, but then it wouldn’t have had any punch. It was a complete mischaracterization of Tillman’s motives, but what does Rall care about that? ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/8 "2004-05-04T04:54:19Z")
I do find it offensive. However I don’t find it offensive for what it says, I find it offensive for who it says it about. Tillman did everything he could to stay out of the public eye for his army career. He turned down every opportunity presented to him by the Army to help promote military service in general as a result of his decision. His family, likewise, has avoided interviews and PR. In his death he was a private citizen, not a sports figure. Rall has gone over the line of public/private citizen. If Rall wanted to go after those people who are lionizing Tillman that is OK (stupid IMO, but within the bounds of decency). A public figure should not mock a private citizen. It is not right. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/9 "2004-05-04T04:55:36Z")
Cool – just wanted to give you a chance to clear that one up. That said, it’s offensive in the extreme. OK, it opposed the Iraq war and you oppose the Iraq war. In the first panel he takes an unwarrented swipe against Cpl. Tillman so outrageous and unjustified that I will never, ever read any publication that ever prints him again. And, of course, in the sign behind he takes a vicious swipe at every single person who has ever enlisted. In the second panel he avers that al Qaeda was not in Afghanistan. In the third column he refers to burning musems, a phenomenon of which I’m unaware and refers to “puppet leaders” with no reference to anything at all – in Iraq we _overthrew_ a former semi-client state (though Saddam was no puppet even back then). And it the fourth panel he refers to Cpl. Tillman as an idiot. That’s four for four. Frankly, opponents of the Iraq war should be profoundly and deeply embarrassed that someone might associate them with this guy. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/10 "2004-05-04T04:57:14Z")
Ahhhhh…Punks NOT dead! I love Ted Ralls work, regardless of whether I agree with him or not. Besides, his cartoons beat the shit out of, say, Family Circus or something. At least you fell _something_ after you read it. Isn’t that the whole point of art? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/11 "2004-05-04T04:58:29Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > profoundly and deeply embarrassed that someone might associate them with this guy. That’s it. That’s the feeling. ---
**Author:** ![nitroglycerine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c5a1d2/32.png) [@nitroglycerine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitroglycerine)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/12 "2004-05-04T04:58:55Z")
> [@nitroglycerine](#): > > Ahhhhh…Punks NOT dead! > > I love Ted Ralls work, regardless of whether I agree with him or not. Besides, his cartoons beat the shit out of, say, Family Circus or something. At least you fell _something_ after you read it. Isn’t that the whole point of art? Err…FELT something ---
**Author:** ![Geoduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@Geoduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geoduck)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/13 "2004-05-04T05:00:02Z")
Yes it is offensive. And folks who share Rall’s anti-war feelings should be denouncing the cartoon as cruel. Are they? Another example of how the anti-war Left seems to have lost a few dozen IQ points. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/14 "2004-05-04T05:05:53Z")
That would be a great point if I hadn’t just expressed that exact feeling, **Geoduck.** Nice work. What’s that an example of? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/15 "2004-05-04T05:13:08Z")
> [@Geoduck](#): > > Yes it is offensive. And folks who share Rall’s anti-war feelings should be denouncing the cartoon as cruel. Are they? Another example of how the anti-war Left seems to have lost a few dozen IQ points. This is what bugs me the most about this cartoon- that it would immediately be generalized as expressing the sentiments of anyone who opposed the invasion of Iraq (who aren’t just lefties, btw). I am probably one of the dozen or so most anti-war/anti-Bush posters on this board and I started this thread in order to denounce it. This kind of stuff doesn’t help my side at all and just provides the pro-war side with a convenient caricature of “liberals” to rave about. Most anti-war “lefties” are probably unaware of the cartoon or are just ignoring it. I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that unless the entire anti-war crowd rises with one voice to denounce this cartoon that they must tacitly support it or that they have “lost IQ points.” ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/16 "2004-05-04T05:24:06Z")
Offended by the content, yes, by the existance of it, no. I mean, knowing it was Rall, I wouldn’t walk across the street to piss in his mouth if his teeth were on fire, but that don’t mean he doesn’t have the right to say/write/draw whatever he wants, and that surely doesn’t mean doing so is free of consequence. More power to him, I say. And that power will be provided by people like Pat Tillman. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/17 "2004-05-04T05:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > refers to “puppet leaders” with no reference to anything at all I’m pretty sure that the “puppets” are the Iraqi Governing Council–hand-picked by the occupation forces. (Of course, one might consider the possibility that the puppets are really Wolfowitz and the DoD’s OSP, being manipulated by Chalabi.) I do agree that the shots at Tillman are both offensive and stupid and that several of the “points” in the strip are generic mudslinging. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/18 "2004-05-04T05:28:48Z")
Isn’t this a _satire_ of anti-war rhetoric? It doesn’t make any sense as a legitimate criticism of the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/19 "2004-05-04T05:30:47Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Isn’t this a _satire_ of anti-war rhetoric? It doesn’t make any sense as a legitimate criticism of the Iraq war. Knowing Rall’s other work, this _is_ his anti-war rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2004, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404/20 "2004-05-04T08:29:21Z")
I’m not offended so much as I am reassured that my previously held belief that Rall is a total asshole is true. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-offended-by-this-cartoon/243404.md?page=2)