No, there isn’t any difference. He’s just using technology to increase his chances of stopping or solving a crime. What other reason is he standing there watching people for?
Well, what I think is that the future of technology indicates that we will gradually lose all privacy. Everything you’ve ever said or done, every place you’ve ever gone and every person you’ve ever spoken to will be recorded somewhere. They’ll be able to track what you own, and everything you’ve ever bought or sold.
And at some point we hit the fork in the road.
An authoritarian government can data mine this to find the “traitors” and “counter-revolutionaries” and even the “criminal elements” and punish them mercilessly for a sea of small and petty crimes. Frame anyone and everyone for all sorts of crimes at any time.
Down the other road, we’ll eventually have no choice but to eliminate a lot of moral, petty and control type laws or risk being thrown back down the first road.
No, there is a difference, and I can give a long rationale or a short one. Let me start with the short: do you think you would behave differently if literally every single movement you make outdoors would be videotaped by a camera crew?
For the longer answer, see Alito’s concurring opinion starting on page 32. He concludes that electronic surveillance of some extended duration constitutes a search. I find that persuasive.
Well of course you would act differently. But that is at the heart of the matter in the safety vs privacy debate. I am not sure if we will ever get (all) people to agree.
I agree that I would act differently. But can you tell me why you think you would act differently if you were videotaped for every moment you weren’t indoors?
What is the difference between being in public and not being videotaped, and being in public and being videotaped, in your view?
Well I used to live in NYC and I assume I was being videotaped a lot when I was outdoors. It never really bothered me and to be honest I never really stopped and made myself “act differently”. I know being monitored sounds bad but in reality it made no real difference, in fact, as stated, I barely even noticed.
I act differently when I’m traveling through a known speed trap than when I’m not. To wit, I don’t speed. And I always throw all my cocaine out of the window.
On the other hand, there are surveillance cameras on every floor of my building. I’m pretty sure they are in the elevators and in the basement. I can’t say that my behavior is any different in response. I still occasionally pick out my wedges and check my deodorant without ever glancing up at the electronic eyes trained on me. And I never think about the cameras when I ditch out a few minutes early or come in a few minutes late. Because I know the cameras aren’t there to penalize minor excursions of professional decorum. They are there to catch the people who steal computer equipment.
People can only be “creeped out” by surveillance for so long before fades into the background.
I give up. I can’t follow what you’re saying from one post to the next.
Yeah, I know, sorry about that, my point is that I thought I would act differently but in truth having cameras in public was so unobtrusive that I had forgotten they were even there… read Monstro’s post for clarification
When I’m outside, I walk down the street looking in windows of the shops I pass by. When I’m hiking, I hike to see the sites, not visit heroin fields. I might hesitate peeing against the tree if I knew someone was watching, so I guess I’d be behaving differently, or maybe not as I know of no law against it when walking in the woods.
What are you doing that it would make any difference? Is it just paranoia or are you doing something that you are ashamed of or is illegal when you are out in public? And if you are ashamed what makes you think anyone else cares?
‘The State’ said to Mr. Ravenman, “Mr. Ravenman, we saw you picking your nose on 5th street and if you don’t want us to show the video to the world, then vote ‘No’ on Proposition 8 in the next election.” That the scenario you are worried about?
I live in Hong Kong. I assume there are cameras about wherever I am. I don’t even think on it unless I need to dispose of a body. Oddly enough, knowing that there are cameras everywhere kind of makes me think before I wack that idiot over the head at the bank machine who can’t get his PIN correct. So, I have no need to bury bodies.
Ok, so if one can adapt to being continuously videotaped, what is objectionable about being videotaped in private? You’d just get used to it, right?
Actually, in his defense (for lack of a better expression) the idea of having cameras on you “all the time” is a bit daunting. Then, you move to a big city like London, or NYC, or Hong Kong and you find out that it is not as big a deal as you thought.
We’re not talking about areas where privacy is expected.
Because there is already a VERY BIG difference between the way people act in public and in private. The degree to which you change your behavior when in public, once you get used to cameras, is negligible (well, at least for people who aren’t criminals).
Or perverts!
Why should that matter? I’m trying to get someone to explain if they care, or don’t care, about the government watching everything you do.
I care where they encroach on areas they’d need a warrant to inspect. But, if the cop can physically look at what you are doing legally, then I don’t see why if he looked at you through a camera, or if a computer did so, it should bother you.
I think what people from really large cities are trying to tell you is:
1- The Government watching you is going to happen, whether you like it or not, they will be
2- After a while you get used to the cameras
That immediately invalidates my opinion regarding rational public policy, and I would expect all sensible people to offer me courteous sympathy…and exclude me from important decision-making on such matters.
Really, with all due respect, it’s a silly question. Of course people’s thinking is different when they’re suffering from severe emotional loss. Do you want a bunch of weeping persons to draft laws?
That’s when it’s the most dangerous, because you’ve forgotten about it.
Just because you can “get used to” horror and injustice doesn’t make them any less horrible or less unjust.
It’s like the guy living under tyranny who was perfectly okay with the Secret Police: they never knock on his door at three in the morning.
Except that, one day, they might.
At that point, the victim will remember what it feels like to be creeped out.