# Are you opposed to voter ID laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411 "2016-07-31T21:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/61 "2016-08-01T03:17:36Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That’s another we use here, in fact! UV ink – and the poll worker that checks your registration shines a blacklight on your hand. > > Got the feeling that is another strategy that if proposed would get the Americans’ boxer shorts all up in a knot, on both sides of the aisle. What happens with people who are missing appendages? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/62 "2016-08-01T04:19:44Z")
I am opposed to voter ID laws b/c they have always been and always will be designed by more powerful people to disenfranchise less powerful people who may not have the interests of the more powerful people in mind when voting. More importantly, I oppose voter ID laws since the Feds and every single state charges for its IDs and that amounts to a [POLL TAX](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax#United_States) which is specifically disallowed under the 24th Amendment to the US Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/63 "2016-08-01T04:44:06Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > Instead of fighting voter ID laws go out and assist people in getting an ID. One of the issues that some states haven’t dealt with is that some people aren’t able to get ID, even with a lot of help. This disproportionately impacts the elderly, who were born into a culture where the whole concept of “ID” was a lot less important and parents wouldn’t have been as worried about making sure their baby had a birth certificate with correct information (assuming they could even read). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/64 "2016-08-01T04:45:33Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I have to say, I’m not one of those people that screams \_\_\_\_\_IST!!! every time another person opens their mouth, but when people say ‘what’s the big deal about Voter ID, we all need an ID to drive’, I really think they’re a bit out of touch. That’s the exact point the left is making, there’s a lot of people with out DL’s. Hell, I know a handful of solidly middle class people that choose not to have a DL. The majority of us think 'Voter ID, sure, why not, I carry my DL with me everywhere I go, but what about the people that don’t have one, that can’t afford the few dollars to get one (And on and on down the rabbit hole). > [@aceplace57](#): > > I could hand you three forms of ID right this moment. My drivers license, my birth certificate card and a credit card. I’ve used the birth certificate card a few times as a 2nd ID to cash checks at my mom’s bank. > > It’s unimaginable in this day and age that somebody wouldn’t have an ID. Either a drivers license or a state issued ID. Either is equally valid. My mom has told that she applied for my SSN card when I was 8 months old. Long before I could sign my name. 😃 This is, _literally_, why people don’t like Voter ID. That’s wonderful that you carry around your birth certificate (why?), a credit card (not a primary form of ID for anything that I know of) and a DL. Some people don’t. Most of those people are eligible to vote and have no easy way of getting an ID. Go to the DMV you say? How? Are you going to pony up the money to get them a ride down there or cover their wages while they take a few hours off work to deal with it? And if they’ve lost the paperwork necessary to get an ID (like a birth certificate), that will cost (more?) money and time. Can you see why people might suggest that requiring an ID might make it so people that don’t have one can’t vote? And certain blocks of people that might not be able to vote, might be voting a certain way. But, like I said, the idea that “I have an ID, why doesn’t every one else” is pretty silly and (god, I can’t believe I’m going to say this, just shoot me now)…privileged. I’m willing to bet you also have some kind of reliable transportation and regularly have more than a few hundred dollars to your name as well? ETA: and have fun trying to get an ID without a permanent address (think squatting or being homeless), but those people are still eligible to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/65 "2016-08-01T04:48:02Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > What happens with people who are missing appendages? > **[Conventionally the left hand index finger of a person who has voted in an...](https://www.quora.com/Conventionally-the-left-hand-index-finger-of-a-person-who-has-voted-in-an-election-is-marked-with-black-ink-Is-there-any-logic-behind-choosing-the-left-hand-index-finger-for-marking-If-yes-then-what-is-it)** > > Answer (1 of 10): Electoral stain is used as a good security feature to prevent double voting in elections. > > > > 1) Ink is normally applied to the left hand index finger, especially to the cuticle where it is almost impossible to remove quickly > 2)... > [@](#): > > How a "Differently Abled "voter without fingers or thumb will be marked with the indelible mark to announce his participation in the polls.?? > > The dilemma, thankfully, hasn’t missed the Election Commission. > > A voter with a missing left-hand forefinger, the prescribed one for inking, can be marked on any finger, thumb on the left hand. > > For a person without fingers or thumb on the left hand, the ink is to be applied to his right-hand forefinger. > > In the case of voters with no fingers or thumb on either hand, the ink marks must be applied on any extremity or stump of his left or right hand as he possesses. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/66 "2016-08-01T06:37:42Z")
Let’s game this out for a minute. Let’s say you want to manipulate election results. So you start going out to various polling places and casting votes as people who aren’t you. You obviously can’t hit the same polling place twice, and it’ll take some amount of time to move between them. Let’s say you’re in an area that has tons of polling places that are well-staffed _and_ there’s no significant wait time; you can vote maybe a few times an hour. In order to cast those votes, you need to find (or create) a voter registration that nobody else is using. You also better be sure nobody catches on to what you’re doing, because each time you do it, it’s a pretty serious felony. Between early voting and election day, you might be able to cast, what, a few dozen fraudulent votes? That’s assuming nobody catches on to what you’re doing, which is a thoroughly questionable proposition. Even then, under absolutely optimal conditions, that’s barely enough to swing even the closest races. You need more people - more people you can pay to commit multiple felonies, and you’d better be able to count on them all keeping their mouths shut. Remember, this is the _only_ kind of voter fraud photo ID laws stop. In-person impersonation voter fraud. And it’s almost non-existent in practice, probably because in theory it’s such a bad idea. You want to commit fraudulent votes? Absentee ballot fraud is _way_ easier to get away with. You want to swing the election? No point in settling for anything other than fraud when counting the votes. Meanwhile, around 10% of the voting-age population has no photo ID, and these people are highly likely to belong to demographics which swing firmly democrat - college students, the elderly, minorities, and the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/67 "2016-08-01T11:01:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > On voting days, various organizations offer free rides to go vote. I’ve seen church vans unload 12 or more people to vote. ? And this law, among other things, shut down early voting _on the very day_ that a whole bunch of churches organize a voting assistance drive. > [@](#): > > How much easier can we possibly make it How about you start by not making it harder to vote than it already is? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/68 "2016-08-01T11:16:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A utility bill wouldn’t be accepted for ID many places. But it shows how commonly we prove ID to various institutions in the US. Are you actually reading this thread? Did you read the appeals court’s ruling? I encourage you again to do so. This case was not about whether, generally speaking, there needs to be some identification requirement for voting. This is what happened here (in very general outline form)— 1. Over a century, white people did everything they could stop black people from voting. 2. After a significant national struggle, several laws were put in place to remedy this. 3. Over a period of decades, black participation in elections nearly reached the level of white participation. 4. The Legislature asked for studies on what parts of the law were helping black people vote nearly as often as white people. 5. The legislature got rid of those things. 6. They also figured out what kind of ID white people were likely to have and what kind of ID black people were likely to have and made white ID acceptable and black ID not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/69 "2016-08-01T12:03:09Z")
I used to be generally for voter identification laws until I moved to a state that had them. Heres my post from a while ago on that: [I’m not brown colored and have a job where I can basically come and go as I please. It was still annoying. If I was black and poor I probably would have given up.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15437082&postcount=414) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/70 "2016-08-01T12:45:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > How much easier can we possibly make it? Why do you say this as though making it easier to vote was a bad thing? If we could find a safe, secure way to let people vote online, or on their phones, that would be awesome. Why should it be any harder than absolutely necessary to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/71 "2016-08-01T13:12:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > just remembered. I had to bring my Drivers License and a recent utility bill to get my public library card. They wanted proof of my current address. > > A utility bill wouldn’t be accepted for ID many places. But it shows how commonly we prove ID to various institutions in the US. What shows how often we have commonly have to “prove ID to various institutions”? For the record, I don’t have a library card and _a lot_ of people don’t have a utility bill with their name and/or current address on it. Think of all those people that live with their parents, the girl/boyfriends (or just friends) or don’t have addresses. You’re exactly proving what I was saying above. “I have an ID it’s totally easy to have one, I don’t understand why everyone can’t get one” is either the problem people are trying to communicate as if everyone can just run out and grab one or the problem people are deliberately acting as if they don’t understand. If you like or want Voter ID, stop focusing on the 27 forms of ID you have in your pocket right now and start thinking of all the ways other people could come up with them. What about people that don’t have a utility bill? What about people with no permanent address? What about people with no address at all? What about people that can’t afford to take off of work to go to the DMV? What about people that can’t afford even the couple of dollars that it would take to get the ID? What about people that aren’t knowledgeable enough to get an ID on their own (yes, they can still vote, if you don’t want them to vote, change the laws, don’t trick them into not being allowed to vote). We can keep going, but, again, Voter ID debates should never, IMO, have anything to do with “Screw you, I got mine”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/72 "2016-08-01T13:20:39Z")
> [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](#): > > So should I lose my right to vote - a right, mind you, not a privilege like buying alcohol or driving - if my wallet is stolen on November 1? Spain requires ID to vote, but we also have the concept of _recibos_ (“receipts”) as part of doing paperwork. If your wallet is stolen on November 1st, you go to the police and file a report that your wallet has been stolen, and the police gives you a report that works as ID (or a new ID right there, it takes a few minutes but only some stations can print one). But this involves the police being able to determine who you are, either via the kind of ID that doesn’t work for elections or via fingerprints. The kind of ID required for voting is in and of itself free, although there may be charges if you change it outside of normal periods. I updated my passport, driver’s license and national ID last December for the cost of a set of ID-type photographs and a 10.46€ penalty for the passport (6 years ahead of its due date). Driver’s licenses used to not be an acceptable form of voter ID but, since some of the countries whose citizens are eligible to vote have cc-sized licenses but no cc-sized “passport equivalents”, the bearer’s nationality was added to their design and now they are. The idea here was to make it easy for people to vote with ID that people would already be likely to have. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/73 "2016-08-01T15:34:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Good points River Hippie > > They already have _get out and vote drives._ Assisting people to easily register to vote. I registered to vote for the first time in a shopping Mall during one of those drives. I think that I was 19 or maybe 20? My first votes were cast for Reagan and Bill Clinton for Governor in 1980. They could arrange a booth to issue state ID’s too for people that needed them. A little planning and coordination with the state beforehand and it could be done. One stop shopping in the Mall. Get your ID, register to vote and buy a Slurpee. To arrange this booth, you NEED the cooperation of the state. You can do a voter registration drive by printing off a bunch of voter applications from the internet, but to actually issue state IDs, you have to have the presence of an authorized state representative and their equipment. Now, what would be the motivation of this state office, when they are beholden to politicians who don’t want you registering people who might vote Democratic? I do know people who don’t have ID. Mostly, they’re older people who have given up driving and decided spending the money on renewing a driver’s license wasn’t worth it anymore. They’re not out buying booze and cigs (and wouldn’t be carded if they were), and their pension/SocSec is direct-deposited. The doctors’ offices know them on sight; their public library card was issued decades ago. They get along perfectly well day-to-day without current ID. ( **RiverHippie** may not be able to buy beer without ID, but I can, and I’m still a few years shy of 59. In my state, most stores stop carding by the time you look like you’re 35 or so.) (Oh, and I’ve been a poll worker. In my last precinct, the supervising judge accepted anybody who looked even vaguely like the photo on their ID, and “same race, could be within 20 years or so of the same age” counted as enough like the photo. The fact that every single person who voted in that precinct that day was of the same race as the supervising judge may or may not have been relevant. I’m working a more diverse precinct in tomorrow’s Kansas primary, so it will be interesting to see it goes.) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/74 "2016-08-01T15:37:01Z")
Everything that aceplace57 offers as an argument suffers from the “white privilege” syndrome. It seems it is impossible for him/her to image anyone living a life that doesn’t conform to his/her conventional middle-class-ish existence of fixed address, credit cards, mobility, etc. Really, there is no utility in having this debate again for the 100,000th time, yah? ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/75 "2016-08-01T15:42:56Z")
If the state is prepared to issue IDs, at no cost and with no effort required, to all citizens, and to undertake the expense and logistical challenges of keeping them up to date and issuing replacements on request, then I suppose it’s all right to require those IDs to vote. Otherwise? It’s just voter suppression - the same as poll taxes and literacy tests and all the other stuff people have tried to try to keep everyone but rich white dudes from voting throughout the history of this country. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/76 "2016-08-01T16:00:39Z")
Why require people to register to vote? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/77 "2016-08-01T18:14:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why require people to register to vote? About a dozen states have up-to-election-day-itself registration, and [North Dakota requires no registration](https://vip.sos.nd.gov/pdfs/Portals/votereg.pdf) (but does require evidence of identity/residence, which in _this_ sort of circumstance makes sense). A process of prior registration was a way to have the vetting for eligibility happen with some time to spare \*before \*you are actually standing at the polling place holding up the line, and ensure compliance with minimum-residency requirements. Same-day registration takes advantage of modern database linking so that an elegibility check can be made on-the-spot. It’s essentially a matter of what process the state feels like using to both facilitate access to the polls AND screen out actual ineligibles. Some of the states use the eligible-voter list as a source of names for their Jury Duty pools, being a listing of citizens not under penal restriction, sorted by local subdivision. In some countries where there is a Universal Citizen ID document, holders thereof are automatically registered as eligible voters upon reaching the required age, or have their district of registration changed when updating their address, unless they are under some legal restriction (e.g. conviction, civil committal). ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/78 "2016-08-01T18:19:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I am for voter ID laws. Yeah, lets keep them minimal and affordable and as easy as reasonably possible. > > But at some point IMO you need to actually get off your ass to exercise your right to vote. If you can’t be bothered to do even that, I have little faith that you’ve invested much effort even bothering to think for a moment about the issues or the candidates. > > So, I tend to think of voter ID laws more as non thinking voter filters. Yeah, tell that to the 90 year old granny who never had a birth certificate issued for her, living out in the country, dozens or more miles from the nearest DMV or state-approved ID preparer who will not issue the ID anyway, because she cannot prove who she is. Many more stories like this, or other situations where citizens cannot obtain a photo ID without access to documentation they cannot afford to get, all over the United States. I recently read an article that pointed out that in many states, you cannot obtain a copy of your birth certificate (if it even exists) for a photo ID, without presenting, you guessed it, a photo ID. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/79 "2016-08-01T18:26:13Z")
The thing that get’s me is. . . If you really cared about underprivileged minorities that don’t have any legal ID, wouldn’t it be a good idea to help them get legal ID? How far can you get in this world without any form of legal ID? The way around voter ID laws is to help your constituents get a legal ID! It’s a win-win. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/80 "2016-08-01T18:54:28Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Buying alcohol is not a right. What about young voters between 18-20? They still cannot buy a beer, but they are Constitutionally granted the right to vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411.md?page=5)