# Are you opposed to voter ID laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 31, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411 "2016-07-31T21:46:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/81 "2016-08-01T18:58:11Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Examples? Is there a place this has actually happened? In general since the 1970s rather than paging back through all of history. > > Sorry - I have at least three they can’t deny and I can’t think of a neighbor who doesn’t have at least two. The point made in another post about student IDs may have some validity but the law or bill proposed can always be modified to include one of those assuming the student doesn’t hold a valid drivers license or state ID like non-drivers use for banking and other purposes. > > I guess there it depends on your definition of fraud. I would consider illegal immigrants voting as fraudulent but I doubt most people in my own Party would agree with that. So that point I may have to actually give up. > > \ Anyone else getting tired of people claiming, “If I have ID’s coming out my ass, why doesn’t everybody?” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/82 "2016-08-01T18:58:37Z")
Here’s a question. Do fingerprints change significantly between newborn and adulthood? If not, I don’t see why in 2016 I can’t go to my current county’s registrar-recorder and have them pull up from my county of birth enough data to prove my birth. The info on my birth certificate and a thumbprint to compare. OK so maybe it doesn’t help a 90 year old grandma living in the back woods but lets at least get started now. And there’s nothing to say my info can’t be online and maybe even add the thumbprint now for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/83 "2016-08-01T19:05:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Good points River Hippie > > They already have _get out and vote drives._ Assisting people to easily register to vote. I registered to vote for the first time in a shopping Mall during one of those drives. I think that I was 19 or maybe 20? My first votes were cast for Reagan and Bill Clinton for Governor in 1980. They could arrange a booth to issue state ID’s too for people that needed them. A little planning and coordination with the state beforehand and it could be done. One stop shopping in the Mall. Get your ID, register to vote and buy a Slurpee. > > On voting days, various organizations offer free rides to go vote. I’ve seen church vans unload 12 or more people to vote. How much easier can we possibly make it? Sure, we’ll just set up a kiosk at the local mall so everyone can get their photo ID. Unless you live 30 miles from the city the mall is in, and unless they ask you for a birth certificate that may or may not ever have existed or has to be gotten from another state, requiring as much as $80, but you only get $215 every month from social security (why can’t they take that as proof?), and you’d kinda like to eat the rest of the month. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/84 "2016-08-01T19:09:54Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > Anyone else getting tired of people claiming, “If I have ID’s coming out my ass, why doesn’t everybody?” Because I think there are two groups being lumped together that shouldn’t be. In Colorado, Grandma may use [any of these documents](https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/DR2469.pdf) to get an ID which is free at 60 or older, $11.50 if younger. I have also advocated for counties to give free services to help people acquire the correct documents. This is very different than a lady who was adopted in Puerto Rico with a name change and the adoption paperwork was never filed and so it is nearly impossible for her to get the right paperwork to get ID. The first example is relatively simple to fix; the second not so much. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/85 "2016-08-01T19:12:35Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > The thing that get’s me is. . . If you really cared about underprivileged minorities that don’t have any legal ID, wouldn’t it be a good idea to help them get legal ID? How far can you get in this world without any form of legal ID? The way around voter ID laws is to help your constituents get a legal ID! It’s a win-win. Sorry, that’s one of the paradoxes of liberalism – it would be racist to expect the underprivileged minorities to try to get anywhere in this world. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/86 "2016-08-01T19:19:41Z")
I’m sorry, that’s such a massive pile of utter bullshit. Here, let’s set up a law specifically designed to make it harder for you specifically to vote and if anyone complains about it then all they’re saying is that you’re incapable of overcoming hardship. Not only that, but it’s targeting voting, which is the one most important right and took democracy gives you to effect change. You should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/87 "2016-08-01T20:06:10Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Sorry, that’s one of the paradoxes of liberalism – it would be racist to expect the underprivileged minorities to try to get anywhere in this world. I slash the tyres on your car. When you complain about it, I respond by berating you for your inability to change the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/88 "2016-08-01T20:18:35Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > The thing that get’s me is. . . If you really cared about underprivileged minorities that don’t have any legal ID, wouldn’t it be a good idea to help them get legal ID? How far can you get in this world without any form of legal ID? The way around voter ID laws is to help your constituents get a legal ID! It’s a win-win. Because getting them legal ID specifically requires the cooperation of government officials, who may have very good reasons (like their bosses!) not to cooperate with you. [Here’s the list of what Kansas will accept](http://www.gotvoterid.com/proof-of-citizenship.html#evidence). Note that it differs rather dramatically from the Colorado list posted by **Saint Cad**. In particular, note the lack of types of records NOT issued by a governmental agency. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/89 "2016-08-01T20:21:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I don’t understand why people are against something as simple as showing ID to vote. > > We show ID routinely all the time. Cashing a check at the bank. Buying a six pack of beer. My daughter shows ID at Walmart when I send her money. You need a drivers license to drive a car. IIRC we had to show ID to register our girls in elementary school 20 years ago. > > It’s no big deal. It’s a part of life. Yet ask for ID to vote and they go crazy. > > I don’t get it. > > Why are the Federal Courts shooting down something so simple and routine? It seems like verifying a person’s identity would reduce voter fraud. Do we really want dead peoples names used to vote? > > The Federal Courts jackboots stomped on North Carolina’s law. > > [https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/us/federal-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolina-voter-id-provision.amp.html?client=ms-android-motorola](https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/us/federal-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolina-voter-id-provision.amp.html?client=ms-android-motorola) None of those things are like voting. Voting is something you can do as long as you’re a citizen and 18 years old. You aren’t given a case of beer when you’re of age. You’re not given a car and expected to learn to drive it, you’re not buying something at Walmart or going to school, or making a deposit. All of those things are items or services you choose to engage in, therefore its fine if you, by choice, accept some small inconvenience in exchange for security on something you choose to do. Unless you commit a felony, you have a right to vote in any general election from now until you’re dead, full stop. Even crazy people get to vote. Even if you’re severely incapacitated, you can still vote. So anything that would interfere with that right needs to be absolutely iron clad and mostly error free, because any interference in voting will damage your complete and absolute right to vote. If there is even a 1% chance you’ll be inconvenienced by an ID, then the ID is wrong. If you have to travel too far, then they need to open more polling places. If you can’t vote on election day, they need to make early voting available to you. Unlike everything else you choose to engage in, you are not responsible for making sure that you can vote, it is the job of someone else, the government, to ensure all its citizens can. That’s why ID’s and other things are wrong to demand, because there is enough people without ID’s, and more importantly, don’t feel like getting ID’s, in order to vote, and you have to still let them vote ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/90 "2016-08-01T21:55:37Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Unless you commit a felony, you have a right to vote in any general election from now until you’re dead, full stop. Even crazy people get to vote. Even if you’re severely incapacitated, you can still vote. So anything that would interfere with that right needs to be absolutely iron clad and mostly error free, because any interference in voting will damage your complete and absolute right to vote. > > If there is even a 1% chance you’ll be inconvenienced by an ID, then the ID is wrong. If you have to travel too far, then they need to open more polling places. If you can’t vote on election day, they need to make early voting available to you. Unlike everything else you choose to engage in, you are not responsible for making sure that you can vote, it is the job of someone else, the government, to ensure all its citizens can. That’s why ID’s and other things are wrong to demand, because there is enough people without ID’s, and more importantly, don’t feel like getting ID’s, in order to vote, and you have to still let them vote Well said. I’m going to borrow this and use it. But I promise not to claim it as my own. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/91 "2016-08-01T22:43:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Spain requires ID to vote, but we also have the concept of _recibos_ (“receipts”) as part of doing paperwork. If your wallet is stolen on November 1st, you go to the police and file a report that your wallet has been stolen, and the police gives you a report that works as ID (or a new ID right there, it takes a few minutes but only some stations can print one). But this involves the police being able to determine who you are, either via the kind of ID that doesn’t work for elections or via fingerprints. > > The kind of ID required for voting is in and of itself free, although there may be charges if you change it outside of normal periods. I updated my passport, driver’s license and national ID last December for the cost of a set of ID-type photographs and a 10.46€ penalty for the passport (6 years ahead of its due date). > > Driver’s licenses used to not be an acceptable form of voter ID but, since some of the countries whose citizens are eligible to vote have cc-sized licenses but no cc-sized “passport equivalents”, the bearer’s nationality was added to their design and now they are. The idea here was to make it easy for people to vote with ID that people would already be likely to have. In California, after I take care of the police report about my stolen wallet, I’d have to make an appointment with the DMV, which are often two to three weeks out, depending on which branch I go to. So if election day is between November 2 and 9, I’ve missed it and I can’t vote. Even if I go to the DMV without an appointment on November 1, moments after realizing my wallet is gone, and am lucky enough to be seen without an appointment, it will be approximately 60 days before my new license/ID arrives in the mail. I will be issued a paper temporary driving license in case I get pulled over, but that doesn’t work as ID. I don’t have a passport, so I can’t use that as voter ID. There’s not enough time to request a mail in ballot. So I’d lose my right to vote for that election, which is totally unfair and a violation of my rights. On the other hand, being in California, we don’t have this kind of voter ID nonsense, at least not yet, so I’m safe. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/92 "2016-08-01T23:31:19Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well said. I’m going to borrow this and use it. But I promise not to claim it as my own. 😉 Thanks. Feel free to take it as your own. I realized as I was rereading that rant that the difference I was trying to point out is that everything else (driving, getting a bank account, paying with a credit card, etc.) are things you voluntarily engage in. So its your responsibility to adhere to other people’s rules if you want to join their “club”, so to speak With voting, its the only thing you are mandatorily enrolled in AND at the same time, the responsibility for letting you do it falls on the government, not you. You are not responsible for making sure you can vote, the government is. That is a completely 180 on where the responsibility falls for literally everything else. With the DMV, the government doesn’t care if you find them inconvenient. They’re giving you a license, so you follow their rules. If you want to open a checking account, the bank decides what rules you have to follow and what the payments are, you don’t get to say its too hard and you don’t want to pay it yet still demand they cater to you. Not so with voting. You can tell the government you both want to vote and refuse to engage in difficult rules preventing you from voting the way you want, within reason of course. That’s why we cannot put up any barriers to voting that might make sense in other industries ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/93 "2016-08-02T02:35:18Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > Anyone else getting tired of people claiming, “If I have ID’s coming out my ass, why doesn’t everybody?” It’s possible but I’m not one of them. 🙂 I may be the odd case. Even back in the days when I basically didn’t have any ID much past a learners permit I never really objected to being asked for it for one reason or another. And you do NOT want to even start to ask about the paperwork I was required to present a couple years back to work for a certain on-line merchant you shop with whose name starts with the letter A - for a part-time warehouse gig. And if I would happen to want to purchase a firearm ---------- God knows that should be even stricter than it is. So why not voting? Why not some simple/single form of ID for me to cast my ballot? Will there be a bias against poor people and black poor people in particular? Maybe; I remain unconvinced. But there is the potential for that kind of bias in a lot of laws (remember the “Saturday Night Special” debates?) even those we Democrats support heart and soul. Will 100% of us agree its all fair and just? Probably not but then again when have we ever agreed 100% on anything? Will one party or another finds ways to use it to their advantage? Sure! Probably both equally in the end like they have managed to with most things since long before I was born. I’m just not seeing it stopping those who are entitled to vote from practicing that vote; no more so than the basic registration we have now. I see it stopping some (not all) illegals and most outright fraud. And like a lot of things, it may or may not help. But I just don’t see it doing harm. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/94 "2016-08-02T02:46:13Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > The way around voter ID laws is to help your constituents get a legal ID! No, because whatever form of ID you provide them with will be specifically disallowed by the voter-ID law. > [@kopek](#): > > So why not voting? Why not some simple/single form of ID for me to cast my ballot? Will there be a bias against poor people and black poor people in particular? Maybe; I remain unconvinced. There is no “maybe” here; it’s a _certainty. That’s the whole point of such laws. There’s certainly not going to be any “simple/single form of ID”, because there’s a risk that might be unbiased; the choice of IDs is_ going to be specifically tailored to disenfranchise Democratic voters since that is the one and only point of such laws. > [@kopek](#): > > And like a lot of things, it may or may not help. But I just don’t see it doing harm. It won’t help, and has no purpose \*except \*causing harm. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/95 "2016-08-02T02:55:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > There is no “maybe” here; it’s a _certainty. That’s the whole point of such laws. There’s certainly not going to be any “simple/single form of ID”, because there’s a risk that might be unbiased; the choice of IDs is_ going to be specifically tailored to disenfranchise Democratic voters since that is the one and only point of such laws. > > It won’t help, and has no purpose \*except \*causing harm. Again, I hear the same basic argument (with a few word substitutions) used with every gun control measure ever made; and for the record I even strongly agree with a couple of them. So I’m still left waiting for something more than what you or I feel. I really would like to see specific examples. And if we don’t like the way the Republicans are writing the proposed measures, why aren’t we writing some ourselves? Surely I can’t be the only registered Democrat out there who thinks illegal and/or fraudulent votes should be hindered. Or am I? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/96 "2016-08-02T03:07:55Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Again, I hear the same basic argument (with a few word substitutions) used with every gun control measure ever made; and for the record I even strongly agree with a couple of them. What does gun control have to do with anything? > [@kopek](#): > > And if we don’t like the way the Republicans are writing the proposed measures, why aren’t we writing some ourselves? Because there’s no point to it. Due to the virtual nonexistence of voter fraud no such law could be created that _wouldn’t_ cause more disenfranchisement than fraud prevention. Even a genuinely well-meaning law would do more harm than good by the inevitable errors. The only reason there’s a push for such laws at all is to disenfranchise Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/97 "2016-08-02T03:16:49Z")
The paranoia that laws requiring ID to vote are meant to harm minority voting is pretty astonishing. 33 states have passed them. Some maybe for bad reasons. But certainly not all of those states. If the courts perceive a problem than the state legislature has to rework the law to make it fair. [Voter identification laws in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States) I’m in Agreement that voting should be easy as possible. But the right to vote doesn’t mean we can’t put basic safeguards in place. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/98 "2016-08-02T03:26:14Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Sorry, that’s one of the paradoxes of liberalism – it would be racist to expect the underprivileged minorities to try to get anywhere in this world. Liberalism says that underprivileged minorities shouldn’t have to get past obstacles imposed by racism in order to get somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/99 "2016-08-02T03:27:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The paranoia that laws requiring ID to vote are meant to harm minority voting is pretty astonishing. But well supported by history. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411/100 "2016-08-02T03:29:06Z")
Okay, I see that Aceplace is not actually going to read or think about anything other than the preconceived notions he started this thread with. There’s no point in putting forth any further effort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-opposed-to-voter-id-laws/761411.md?page=6)