# Are you "patriotic?" Do you consider yourself a "patriot?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 11, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964 "2019-03-11T18:05:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/1 "2019-03-11T18:05:16Z")
What does that mean to you? Can you defend it as a positive attribute to someone who has never felt particularly thus? [If I’ve used “thus” incorrectly please forgive and ignore.] ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/2 "2019-03-11T18:27:43Z")
Cultures that cultivate patriotism are sometimes predators. That can be a bad thing. Cultures that lack patriotism are prey. That is always a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/3 "2019-03-11T18:29:40Z")
As with every ostensibly beneficent and admirable quality, it is one that, if you claim to possess it, you very likely do not. You can legitimately say that you aspire to it, but to say that you actually have the quality is really a way of saying that you want others to believe it of you. Other qualities that are similarly perilous to claim are “wisdom,” “holiness,” and “having the best words.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/4 "2019-03-11T18:39:26Z")
To me a patriot is someone deeply devoted to his country and its ideals. It is the same thing as a zealot of a religion with the strengths and weakness of that trait. While I am not a patriot of any nation of this world, I could be called a patriot for the Kingdom of God. I believe in that above the worldly kingdoms which this one will crush, and with such worldly rulership gone we can have peace. Till then I take myself as a diplomat of God’s Kingdom and have experienced much ‘diplomatic immunity’ though one may call it stellar good luck when viewed from a outside perspective. It is where I place my hope and my home as I see this country decay and take it’s place with the failed empires of the past. Love will win and put a end to the need for such use of tyranny to keep people subject to false hopes. So with that I hope to relay the feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/5 "2019-03-11T18:52:42Z")
I consider myself patriotic (standing up for my country’s ideals sounds ideal). I don’t think of myself as a patriot though. That would require dressing up in an 18th century-style outfit with white leggings while marching around playing a fife and/or drum, and I’m a lot happier lounging in jeans and a t-shirt.\* \*I’ve got a cool one with a “Don’t Tread On Me” design. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/6 "2019-03-11T19:00:06Z")
Yes, I consider myself patriotic (I am American). > [@](#): > > Can you defend it as a positive attribute to someone who has never felt particularly thus? Sure. America isn’t perfect, but overall she has done enormously more good than bad for the world. Patriotism means recognizing that and not pretending otherwise, any more than pretending she has never erred. And it also means defending her legitimate interests. Every country defends its own interests - expecting the US not to do so is silly. People whose idea of patriotism is to bad-mouth or attack or denigrate the US at every opportunity are people with a different idea of patriotism, and not IMO a very realistic one. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/7 "2019-03-11T19:07:12Z")
The election of 2016 helped me realize how much I truly care about this country. It’s demise troubles me. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/8 "2019-03-11T19:17:33Z")
During my day-to-day life, I think about what country I live in about as often as a fish thinks about being in water. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/9 "2019-03-11T19:34:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I consider myself patriotic (standing up for my country’s ideals sounds ideal). > > I don’t think of myself as a patriot though. That would require dressing up in an 18th century-style outfit with white leggings while marching around playing a fife and/or drum, and I’m a lot happier lounging in jeans and a t-shirt.\* > > \*I’ve got a cool one with a “Don’t Tread On Me” design. And that last part is my reason for identifying as patriotic but not a “patriot”. Too many people wave that word around to equate rightwing-ism with Americanism, and a lot of those people prominently display “Don’t Tread On Me” shirts/flags/bumper-stickers (present company excluded, of course 🙂 ). Do I fly the U.S. flag? Yes. Do I adorn my jalopy\* with a couple dozen flags, as I saw the other day? :rolleyes: Heck no!. Do I fly a torn U.S. flag next to a pristine Irish flag, with a “Don’t like my flag? Call 1800-EAT SHIT” bumper-sticker, as I saw once. :eek: HELL no! \*My car is not a jalopy, thank you very much, but the two dozen flags were on a jalopy/hooptie. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/10 "2019-03-11T19:50:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > During my day-to-day life, I think about what country I live in about as often as a fish thinks about being in water. So do patriots. The only difference is that when patriots \*do \*think about water, they think their water is the BEST EVER. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/11 "2019-03-11T20:42:47Z")
I don’t really use the term, but I’ll cop to it. I love my country, its history and geography, and the people who live in it. Our culture is worth defending, even as it changes. Despite serious flaws, it’s still the most free country on Earth. I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else. I hate the government, it’s political leaders and most of its foreign policy, but that’s really a small part of what makes America America. And while I hate [threepers and militia-types and gung-ho “my country right or wrong” people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_movement), I’d hate for the term “patriot” to be entirely relegated to the country’s worst element. That’s why, while I don’t normally use the term or openly identify with it, I’ll say I’m a patriot when asked, like today. It doesn’t need to be a bad word. ---
**Author:** ![BrickBat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@BrickBat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrickBat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/12 "2019-03-11T20:55:03Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Do I fly the U.S. flag? Yes. Do I adorn my jalopy\* with a couple dozen flags, as I saw the other day? :rolleyes: Heck no!. Do I fly a torn U.S. flag next to a pristine Irish flag, with a “Don’t like my flag? Call 1800-EAT SHIT” bumper-sticker, as I saw once. :eek: HELL no! In my meanderings I’ve run across is a T-shirt with a big US flag on back, with the phrase “Try burning THIS one, asshole” under it. Always seems to be sported by guys whose menacing facial expressions and body english suggest it is their biggest wish someone will try to. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/13 "2019-03-11T20:56:32Z")
I was when I was younger, but the last few decades have burned it out of me; now I feel only contempt, fear and hatred for my country. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/14 "2019-03-11T21:16:59Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > And that last part is my reason for identifying as patriotic but not a “patriot”. Too many people wave that word around to equate rightwing-ism with Americanism, and a lot of those people prominently display “Don’t Tread On Me” shirts/flags/bumper-stickers (present company excluded, of course 🙂 ). My t-shirt doesn’t actually say “Don’t Tread On Me” but has [a related sentiment](https://www.amazon.com/American-Revolution-T-shirt-Tee-Shirt/dp/B07MDSGTTD). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/15 "2019-03-11T21:40:30Z")
No. America has potential to be a good country but we’ve been on the wrong track for decades now. Racial divisions allowed kleotocrats to sieze control of the government and people are paying for it the entire world over. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/16 "2019-03-11T22:02:45Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > What does that mean to you? Can you defend it as a positive attribute to someone who has never felt particularly thus? [If I’ve used “thus” incorrectly please forgive and ignore.] Yes, and yes. It means that I love my country and want it to be successful (and work towards achieving success). As for “defend it as a positive attribute”, I suppose there’s an element of “in the eye of the beholder” for labeling any attribute “positive” or “negative” (e.g. I think being kind is a positive attribute, but someone else might consider a kind person to be a push-over and view the attribute negatively). IMHO, patriotism is pretty clearly a positive attribute. In any organization I’m a part of, whether it’s a family, a country, a business, a sports team, etc., I want my fellow members to be devoted to it and want it to succeed (and work towards achieving success). I don’t want my teammates to be indifferent to the success or failure of our team, and I don’t want fellow citizens that are indifferent to the success or failure of our country. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/17 "2019-03-11T22:38:39Z")
Well, patriotism is just the face of nationalism, and nationalism focuses on accentuating the differences between people which leads inevitably to strife, or clique alliances which industrialize strife. Patriotism gives rise to borders, which the wealthy patrol to keep the poor from finding refuge, and behind which the wealthy hide while making life even more difficult for the poor within their own borders. So I guess I believe patriotism is the embodiment of all that is ugly in mankind. The concept of “mine is better than yours, and even knowing that, I won’t share with you”. I consider it an outdated institution, and not a particularly good one. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/18 "2019-03-11T22:40:07Z")
Definitely not. Even before America started going down the shitter, I wasn’t very enthused about it as a country. As far as countries go, we’re [pretty](https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking) [bad](https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/World-Rankings/World-Rankings/Human-development-index)[statistically](https://knoema.com/atlas/topics/World-Rankings/World-Rankings/Happiness-index). The only things we’re good at are things [we](http://www.prisonstudies.org/highest-to-lowest/prison-population-total?field_region_taxonomy_tid=All) [shouldn’t](http://www.healthdata.org/news-release/six-countries-americas-account-half-all-firearm-deaths) be. I don’t even get the rabid devotion some ‘patriots’ have to the flag either. It’s cloth. It’s pretty but it’s cloth. It doesn’t mean anything if someone burns it, drops it on the ground or just looks at it cross-eyed. The patriotism in this country has grown so insane it’s crossed over the line to becoming nationalism. And what’s even more disheartening to me is, I don’t see it getting any better in my lifetime. There’s been so much damage done in even the last 3 years, it’s set us back as a country at least 20. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/19 "2019-03-11T22:51:40Z")
Yes. While my country has it’s flaws, I beleive that on the whole, it has been a beneficial factor in the world. The ideals I was taught that my country stands for are the ideals of my country that I stood to defend. Do I fly a flag or display one on my car? No, but I do wear a hat proclaiming my service to my country. On that hat I wear a pin, of a cherub holding a flag in memory of my brother who died in service to our country. That’s, in part my patriotism. The thing is, I’ve been saying my country, but for those of you reading this who are from my country, its OUR country. Maybe we don’t like each other, but I would still defend you from attack, or stand together with you to correct a wrong we both percieve. My flag doesn’t fly for this or that group only, it flies for all of us and our collective ideals. That is why I am a patriot, but not a Patriot. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964/20 "2019-03-11T23:03:08Z")
A patriot, in my experience, is a person who virtue signals how much better they are because they stick images of the US flag in places that probably aren’t approved by the US flag codes. I don’t do that, so I’m not a patriot. I’m also not particularly nationalistic, and am not opposed to the notion that the US is not necessarily the best thing since the US invented both sliced bread and the bread to slice and the knives to slice it with, so I’m _really_ not a patriot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-patriotic-do-you-consider-yourself-a-patriot/830964.md?page=2)