# Are you required to join a union? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 29, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031 "2006-01-29T01:38:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/1 "2006-01-29T01:38:23Z")
If you wanted to get a job at, say, an auto factory, would you be required to join the UAW (or similar union)? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/2 "2006-01-29T01:44:08Z")
Depends on the state, shop and gig. I worked in an auto plant for a temp gig in grad school. No union. Lady Chance worked as a tour guide two summers in college on those Tourmobiles in DC and had to join the teamsters because of it. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/3 "2006-01-29T01:52:49Z")
Federal law protects your right _not_ to have to join a union. You may still have to pay “agency fees” which is a very, very, _very slightly_ reduced payment in lieu of dues, depending on whether your state is a right-to-work state or not. Check out [National Right to Work Defense Council](http://www.nrtwc.org) for many articles about your rights during coerced unionism, and [National Right to Work](http://www.nrtw.org) about what may or may not be called the evils of involuntary, forced unionism. ---
**Author:** ![Burrido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Burrido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burrido)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/4 "2006-01-29T02:43:25Z")
Two parts of our company, a property maintance side and a construction side. Maintance side has no unions, wheres the construction side does. Construction didn’t require you to join, but some of members would haze you if you didn’t. Hiding your tools, talking shit, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/5 "2006-01-29T03:33:47Z")
In a previous job that I had at a life insurance company you didn’t have to join the union, but the default position was that all new employees automatically became members. You had to opt out if you didn’t want to be a member. It was not a big issue to opt out and it didn’t affect you in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Smashed\_Ice\_Cream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Smashed\_Ice\_Cream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smashed_Ice_Cream)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/6 "2006-01-29T09:15:16Z")
I’m posting so I can subscribe to this thread; it’s something I’ve wondered about myself. A few years ago I worked in a laboratory that all employees had to join the union, or opt out. I opted out, but was required to donate the same amount of money as the dues would have been to a charity of my designation (from a list, I couldn’t donate to the Smashed Ice Cream college loan repayment fund). However, when I lost my job, the union fought for my job back the same as if I was a member. I never followed up with how that happened, especially since I was the only non-union member in the lab. I wasn’t the only layoff, though. I was, however, the only one who didn’t get rehired, but I got a better severance package than I was originally given because of the union’s involvement in settling the layoffs. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/7 "2006-01-29T12:05:21Z")
I didn’t have to join the Teacher’s Union, but an amount the same as the dues _minus $1_ would be deducted from my pay. I decided to be a member. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/8 "2006-01-29T13:25:20Z")
How are they legally able to take “dues” from your paycheck? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/9 "2006-01-29T15:30:41Z")
It’s specfically permitted by statute: > [@](#): > > The NLRA (29 U.S.C. § 158[a][3]) permits agency shop arrangements, whereby after 30 days, nonmembers are required to pay a union for the services that it rendered in negotiating terms and conditions of employment for all > employees. Similarly, states with collective-bargaining statutes, and a few with right-to-work statutes, permit fair-share agreements as a means of providing unions with security. [http://asbointl.org/ASBO/files/ccPageContentDOCFILENAME001008705546SBA\_April02\_article\_Right-to-Work.pdf](http://asbointl.org/ASBO/files/ccPageContentDOCFILENAME001008705546SBA_April02_article_Right-to-Work.pdf) (pdf) > [@29 U.S.C. § 158(a)(3)](#): > > Provided, That nothing in this subchapter, or in any other statute of the United States, shall preclude an employer from making an agreement with a labor organization (not established, maintained, or assisted by any action defined in this subsection as an unfair labor practice) to require as a condition of employment membership therein on or after the thirtieth day following the beginning of such employment or the effective date of such agreement, whichever is the later, (i) if such labor organization is the representative of the employees as provided in section 159 (a) of this title, in the appropriate collective-bargaining unit covered by such agreement when made, and (ii) unless following an election held as provided in section 159 (e) of this title within one year preceding the effective date of such agreement, the Board shall have certified that at least a majority of the employees eligible to vote in such election have voted to rescind the authority of such labor organization to make such an agreement[.] [http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc\_sec\_29\_00000158----000-.html](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc_sec_29_00000158----000-.html) [Some constitutional limitations and requirements apply](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=475&invol=292) The rationale is that the non-union employees get the benefit of the union’s efforts; letting them accept the benefit without paying gives them a “free ride.” When I was on the negotiating committee for my union, we had a related issue. The negotiations were pretty hairy. The employees were facing layoffs and wage concessions. Suddenly those anti-union folks wanted to attend the strategy meetings. We had to decide whether to let them. _See_, [http://www.flra.gov/decisions/v55/55\_103ab.html](http://www.flra.gov/decisions/v55/55_103ab.html) for a discussion of the applicable rules. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/10 "2006-01-29T16:29:42Z")
We have three unions: Teamsters, Operators and IBEW. The CBA between management and the unions requires membership. I don’t believe there are any options. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/11 "2006-01-29T16:46:25Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > We have three unions: Teamsters, Operators and IBEW. The CBA between management and the unions requires membership. I don’t believe there are any options. AK is not a Right to Work or “free collective bargaining” state. [National Right to Work Foundation Right to Work States - National Right to Work Foundation](http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm;) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right\_to\_work](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_work) ---
**Author:** ![tofergregg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tofergregg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofergregg)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-required-to-join-a-union/342031/12 "2006-01-29T17:26:19Z")
I have a problem with forced agency fees, which is partly the reason I have not rejoined the teacher’s union at my school (I left the school for a year and came back, but did not rejoin the union). My take: union dues are about $750 per year, and agency fees are about $700 per year. Agency fee payers are only required to pay for the costs associated with bargaining and grievance support (and a few other things, but not political activities). The union is required to have an independent auditor account for the costs. In my school system, we have about 800 faculty and staff members. At $700 per year, that works out to $560,000 per year for “bargaining and grievance support.” I think that is complete B.S., and if it costs that much to support those things, the union is doing something severely wrong. Much of the dues and agency fees goes to the state and federal unions, and the general consensus (although not by the unions themselves, of course) is that there is a lot of overcharging that gets missed by the auditors. The other issue I have is that, quite frankly, in the open market I am worth more as a physics teacher than my English teacher / Social Studies teacher colleagues. I have no independent bargaining rights to say, “hey, you want to keep me? Pay me more. I know you’ll have a hard time replacing me.” That said, I certainly don’t work any harder than my colleagues, so getting paid the same as them is not as big an issue to me. I think we should ALL get paid much more. I would be happy to be in the union if it was strictly a local effort. Ditch the state and federal union entities (which are corrupt on many levels). Until then, I won’t be a member if I don’t have to. -Tofer