# Are you serious? You guys just banned TLDR? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638 "2008-03-25T03:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/101 "2008-03-25T16:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Eh, it’s too bad. At least he can bask in the posthumous glow of being king of the trolls. The nice thing about his trolling is that he put a lot of effort into it. So many trolls just dash off an inflamatory post in five minutes, and that’s it. But he’d return, he’d argue, and he’d never break character. VCO3 cared about trolling, not like these kids today with their hippity-hoppity music and baggy pants. [/QUOTE] He only started returning to his threads after the mods told him to stop with the drive-by postings. I don’t think TLDR was a troll in the sense that I believe his posts were honest representations of how he thinks. And for a while, he was doing a bit better. But his behaviour has been pushing or passing the line fairly regularly, and I think last night’s showing pushed things too far. Regardless of whether he honestly held the opinions he held, I can’t deny that he was pushing the bounds of acceptable behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/102 "2008-03-25T16:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Though I have no experience of such things, I’m inclined to agree. My impression of **TURDUCKEN** (which may very well be wrong) is that he didn’t **think** he was trolling. Rather, he said/asked whatever came into his head without really realizing how it’d be received by other people. [/QUOTE] This is what I think, too. Which basically means he was banned for his personality. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/103 "2008-03-25T16:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] This is what I think, too. Which basically means he was banned for his personality. [/QUOTE] I like the moniker, “long named person”–that someone upthread gave him. I’ll miss him in a weird way. I think he’s very immature, genuinely clueless and not actively malicious, so therefore, not a troll. I also never saw him do a “let’s you and him fight” thing, which I am seeing more often here. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/104 "2008-03-25T16:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] This is what I think, too. Which basically means he was banned for his personality. [/QUOTE] When someone’s personality consists of “exhibiting troll-like behavior” and “being a total jerk”, I am okay with this. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/105 "2008-03-25T16:14:12Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] **Lemur866** , how did you determine he was “in character” as opposed to genuinely holding the opinions he posted? [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for **Lemur866** , but I think what capped it for me were the [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461064) [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461070) he started last night. Both were subjects that have been proven to be provocative on this board. They both seemed designed to inflame. Had he posted just one or the other with slightly less splashy come-on OP’s, I probably wouldn’t have even raised an eyebrow. But to post both one right after the other…as I said, it seemed intentional. To be quite honest, I was hoping the mocking would continue a bit longer. Maybe if it had, he would’ve gotten the clue that people were done with him posting bullshit OP’s, and the banning wouldn’t have been necessary. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/106 "2008-03-25T16:16:43Z")
I think banning somebody should be rare . It happens too often. When a guy joins just to piss off people they should be banned. But a person who is serious but off the wall ,his opinions should not be stopped. You have an option to read them or not to read them. What is the harm. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/107 "2008-03-25T16:21:35Z")
He wrote a haiku To honor being banned, but Too long, didn’t read ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/108 "2008-03-25T16:22:05Z")
You don’t think the threads he posted last night were deliberate attempts to piss people off? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/109 "2008-03-25T16:27:27Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] You don’t think the threads he posted last night were deliberate attempts to piss people off? [/QUOTE] No, I don’t. But even if they were, I’m not sure that should be a bannable offense. I’m not sure it’s the same thing as “trolling.” There are plenty of people around here who piss people off, don’t care that they piss off, and would probably admit as much. Are we going to ban all of them? God, I hope not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/110 "2008-03-25T16:28:17Z")
I don’t know. I glanced at the,thought they had no where to go and abandoned them. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/111 "2008-03-25T16:39:43Z")
His threads always made me laugh. But then, so did the large number of jackasses that managed to whip themselves into a self-righteous frenzy every time he posted. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/112 "2008-03-25T16:40:53Z")
I hate that he _had to be banned_, but I most heartily agree with his banning. Think of the SDMB like you would a pub. It’s not entirely dissimilar. You have people with a lot of different interests basically shooting the breeze. You have lively debates–so lively in fact because like so many pub arguments, the stakes are incredibly small (proving who is right and wrong on a message board.) What’s very similar is that a pub is a private enterprise. In a pub, you’re not just paying for alcohol–if that was all you were interested in you would not go to a pub. Alcohol is cheaper per unit from a supermarket than it is at a pub. You’re paying for the service provided by the bartender, sure–but you’re also paying for atmosphere. As a private enterprise, it is in the pub’s interests to insure that its atmosphere continues to be an atmosphere that the majority of its patrons are comfortable with. The pub isn’t a public forum, nor is this a public forum. This is a privately owned forum, we discuss topics here at the leisure of this forum’s owner. I’m as strong an advocate of free speech as you can find. I fully support the worst people in the world, the strongest holocaust deniers, strongest hate-speech types and et cetera being able to shout their opinions to the world. But, not on private property–private property owners have the right to eject people for objectionable behavior (or in many cases for any reason at all.) To go back to the pub analogy, say you have a regular patron. Many people find him funny, but he has a bad habit of sometimes intentionally picking fights with other patrons. You’ll have him tossed out anytime he does this, but for awhile you won’t permanently bar him from your pub. But _eventually_ it gets to the point where you do permanently bar him from your pub. Because eventually he has offended too many of your patrons, is blatantly just trying to stir up shit, and in short needs to be gone–permanently. That is how I viewed the **VCO3** situation. This isn’t a public forum. To me it is irrelevant if someone makes an interesting post or not, that doesn’t excuse bad behavior. No offense to anyone in this thread, but if you think **VCO3** was genuine in his feelings–you have been whooshed. I have never seen anyone so obviously craft threads to maximize how much it offends other posters, that someone could “coincidentally” hold so many opinions that were guaranteed to maximally offend so many people is just not a coincidence I’m willing to buy into. Even if he genuinely held these opinions, he never had to specifically work his posts in a manner guaranteed to upset other posters. Here is where things diverge a bit from the pub analogy. Part of what makes this place what it is, is the arguments that break out. Lets all be honest, any of us that engage in these arguments _enjoy them_. But most of us can debate a topic, there’s a difference between debating a topic and just trying to stir up shit. For the exact reason that part of what makes the “atmosphere” of this place is the argumentative nature of several of the forums, we have to foster as many divergent ideas as possible. If we all agreed on everything Great Debates wouldn’t really be necessary, and many threads in many other forums wouldn’t be necessary either. So I generally believe we should give posters an enormous amount of latitude in what they say and how they say it. For example I’ll point to **Der Trihs** , he offends a great many people quite often. However despite some early problems with him, I think he genuinely believes what he is saying. I don’t believe he is posting to offend, he’s posting to get his opinion out there. On this board, the sole criteria for banning shouldn’t be whether or not your words offend. In fact, I do not think that criteria is what is used. My words offend many people quite often, the words of many posters offends many users quite often. To my knowledge I’ve received one official warning in something like 5 years of posting. A lot of other posters that offend people have never been banned or gotten in serious trouble. I think that is because the mods do see a difference between someone voicing their genuine opinion in a reasonable manner, an opinion which _happens to offend some_ and someone who is posting something that is primarily designed to offend. I believe **VCO3** was primarily using these message boards as an outlet for trolling. He was not genuinely interested in arguing his point, he was not genuinely interested in discussion. Someone like that undermines what a _message board_ is all about. He was primarily about making other posters pissed. I always felt sorry for the people who were deluded enough to think he was just a “funny guy” who happened to offend some people. He wasn’t, he was an asshole who happened to be capable of posting some non-assholish things from time to time. I honestly think it possible he only posted in forums other than the Pit in order to make it appear he had interests other than trolling. Maybe I’m wrong on that–I certainly hope so, because at least then he doesn’t come off as quite so pathetic. To go back to the topic of the atmosphere of these message boards, the entity which owns the SDMB has a vested interest in fostering an atmosphere of open discussion. Trolling actually _undermines_ that atmosphere. It may seem an odd stance that a forum which wants to foster open discussion would prohibit certain types of discussion. Open discussion only works if everyone is genuine. Trolling isn’t genuine, it’s an attempt to enrage. Not an attempt to persuade, not an attempt to voice opinion, it is an attempt solely to enrage others. That does not help open discussion, it hinders it. That does not foster the free exchange of ideas, it hinders it. It’s also materially different from “playing Devil’s Advocate” for a few reasons. Playing Devil’s Advocate is done to explore sides of an argument that you don’t personally hold, in order to foster a better understanding of that side of the argument both for yourself and others. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/113 "2008-03-25T16:45:03Z")
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit] When someone’s personality consists of “exhibiting troll-like behavior” and “being a total jerk”, I am okay with this. [/QUOTE] Ditto. I don’t think he was deliberately, consciously trolling. (Personally, I believe he was a borderline Aspergers type who would ingest his club drugs and post in an altered state, which is why he seemed so disconnected from the vibe of the place. But that’s just a hypothesis.) Nevertheless, while not a capital-T Troll, I do think he was disruptive, and an unwelcome presence. Some of his threads morphed into entertaining slagfests, so that will be missed. Still, overall, we’re better off without him, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/114 "2008-03-25T16:51:26Z")
**Martin Hyde** , I think I see a big disconnect with your pub analogy, which is that it’s much, much, much easier to ignore someone you don’t want to deal with on a message board than if they are loudly in your face at a pub. Put that together with the fact that the patrons here don’t _agree_ as to whether or not he was a disruptive influence, or whether they enjoyed his presence, and I think the mod action might be a bit out of place. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/115 "2008-03-25T16:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] No, I don’t. But even if they were, I’m not sure that should be a bannable offense. I’m not sure it’s the same thing as “trolling.” There are plenty of people around here who piss people off, don’t care that they piss off, and would probably admit as much. Are we going to ban all of them? God, I hope not. [/QUOTE] Of course not. If that were the case, there would be many people gone right now, as **Martin Hyde** pointed out\*. OTOH, I do think you’re giving him a bit more innocence than he actually possessed. Take [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448415&page=1&pp=50), for example. He started out by stating that he _knew_ it was probably a bad idea, would probably cause problems, but wanted to see if he could get away with it anyway. Doesn’t sound like someone who isn’t aware that his ideas are provocative to me. Don’t even get me started on his constantly trying to get accused of being a racist. His gleeful “I just LUUUURVES black people, why do they do this crazy shit?” threads got old faster than limburger in an air vent. \*Would someone please check and see if it’s snowing in hell? No offense, **Martin** , I just never thought I’d see the day. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/116 "2008-03-25T17:28:16Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] I can’t speak for **Lemur866** , but I think what capped it for me were the [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461064) [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=461070) he started last night. Both were subjects that have been proven to be provocative on this board. They both seemed designed to inflame. Had he posted just one or the other with slightly less splashy come-on OP’s, I probably wouldn’t have even raised an eyebrow. But to post both one right after the other…as I said, it seemed intentional. [/QUOTE] How did you get from provocative and inflammatory to him not actually holding those positions? Is it just utterly impossible for you to believe that people can really have provocative and inflammatory opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/117 "2008-03-25T17:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] As I said, not sure how to answer that. How about infinite? [/QUOTE] Well, if people have an infinite number of warnings before being banned, then there is no more point to warnings. Are you suggesting that no one should ever be banned, or that people should be banned, but without the warnings ahead of time? The thunderbolt out of the blue approach? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/118 "2008-03-25T17:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] Well, if people have an infinite number of warnings before being banned, then there is no more point to warnings. Are you suggesting that no one should ever be banned, or that people should be banned, but without the warnings ahead of time? The thunderbolt out of the blue approach? [/QUOTE] No, I am suggesting that people not get warned on trumped-up charges because they are not well-liked by certain people. Once that problem is corrected, then we can talk about when banning is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/119 "2008-03-25T17:38:45Z")
For the record - my personal impression of the recently banned poster discussed in this OP is that he was frequently posting to irritate people and enjoying it, but I have no hard evidence for that. I remember several times where he would start a thread and/or post in a thread something that seemed a sure bet to irritate people, and that would be his only post in the thread. Which caused the rule that he should make at least some token effort to return and participate in his threads. In Cafe Society, I remember that he would sometimes not just post an opinion, but post an opinion with the added subtext that “anyone who would not agree with me, or be interested in this thing that I find useless, is an idiot.” Again, just my impression. In those threads, I wouldn’t be so sure that he was being confrontational on purpose, but I would not be surprised if others were to interpret it that way. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638/120 "2008-03-25T17:40:33Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Of course not. If that were the case, there would be many people gone right now, as **Martin Hyde** pointed out\*. OTOH, I do think you’re giving him a bit more innocence than he actually possessed. Take [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448415&page=1&pp=50), for example. He started out by stating that he _knew_ it was probably a bad idea, would probably cause problems, but wanted to see if he could get away with it anyway. Doesn’t sound like someone who isn’t aware that his ideas are provocative to me. Don’t even get me started on his constantly trying to get accused of being a racist. His gleeful “I just LUUUURVES black people, why do they do this crazy shit?” threads got old faster than limburger in an air vent. \*Would someone please check and see if it’s snowing in hell? No offense, **Martin** , I just never thought I’d see the day. 😛 [/QUOTE] And the harm was? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/are-you-serious-you-guys-just-banned-tldr/442638.md?page=7)